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I wonder,after everything is said and done at the end of the investigation,how many of the hundreds of rounds fired by Police hit customers instead of the bad guy? From the TV aerial pictures,it amazes me how they crammed 300 people into such a small venue. For the bad guy,it was like shooting fish in a barrel.
The shooter had a CCW license. He had more checks than Canada requires as a comparison. He was checked as a Security Guard, A bond check, a CCW check by Florida State and if the firearms were purchased from a dealer he filed a 4473 form with the BATFE AND was checked by the FBI. If he bought them private sale, just as in Canada, the seller is required to not sell to anyone that shouldn't have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
This is about evil and misguided ideology not about a gun purchase.
But,that would be an entirely reasonable assumption for people attending such an event. That's a very close-knit society where the very last thing on anyone's mind would be such a possibility ever happening for anyone to think they need to attend "heavy".Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
^^^ Agreed 100%
I fully understand the drill. We adopted immediate action drills for active shooters but that changes when the perp throws the switch from active shooter to hostage taker. Our HRT Commander used to say "if you can get a man to talk, you can get him to walk." Meaning "maybe" nobody else has to die in order to end the event.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I still expect a huge dustup on the 3 hour wait and the initial failure to breach. I suspect negotiations influenced the delay in the relatively immediate entry or they switched Tac Teams.
Generally, once the carnage has occurred, nothing is gained by waiting.
JoePa,Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
You have had some doozie posts in the pasts but this one takes the cake.
First, as others have pointed out and yourself as well, people are going to be taking off running. How accurate are you going to be with hundreds of people potentially hitting your arm/body in a mad rush to get away from the danger? Do you think because you pull out your "hero" card (aka a good guy carrying a gun) in your attempt to stop the shooter from causing more harm, people will step aside to allow you to have a clear line of sight at the shooter? Furthermore, you fail to realize most of the patrons won't know you from Adam and probably won't realize you are trying to stop the shooter. I can recognize a LEO because they are easily identifiable as they are wearing a uniform and a badge, you will have no such way to help people identify you as a "good guy". In your make believe scenario, you think you would be the only one armed. If you are armed, there is more than likely other civilians armed and now we have the potential for an old west saloon shootout where no one knows whose side anyone else is on. There aren't any white/black cowboy hats to distinguish between good guys and bad guys. Add in a adrenaline factor to your shooting and things get chaotic rather quickly.
Second, I think you severely underestimate the protection of furniture in a bar (as Oddmott pointed out if you could find something to hide behind). This stuff is flimsy and wouldn't stop a sneeze. Go buy a dresser drawer and shoot it up and see how well it stands up for cover.
Thirdly, I would like to propose an experiment. I will have you in a crowd of people (it doesn't have to be a massively dense crowd either) and fire a blank and then have the crowd of people run in the opposite direction. What is the likelihood of you drawing your firearm before the crowd stampedes you into the ground? Don't forget, you will probably have to get your firearm out of your holster and add more time if it is concealed as clubs don't really want civilians walking around visibly armed.
Fourthly, and this is most important. You said if I were there. Here is the problem with that condition. You, JoePa, wouldn't have been there to stop it. The shooting occurred at a Latin themed night gay bar at 2am in the morning. You are an elderly man who lives in Pennsylvania who has a 1940's outlook of the world. There is a better chance of a visit by an benevolent extra terrestrial species than you being in that club on Saturday night.
You seem to believe if you had been at any of these mass shootings you would have been able to somehow stop it with a your trusty sidearm and a heroic can-do attitude with the only damage being to the bad guy who is more than happy to stop his destructive rampage to let you get a nice clear shot at him at your leisure. Most men grow out of these juvenile fantasies by puberty. You should really be checked for dementia if you truly think you could have somehow stopped this and your actions would have done more help than harm. I would really love to call your bluff and encourage you to arm yourself and back up all of your big talk you have posted on the forums when it comes to situations like this. I know it will not turn out like you think it will.
Dyth
Well said Dyth but i wouldn't bother responding to the troll because it ultimately encourages even more .
First of all you start out your rambling with a error - I said - when a guy comes into a place and starts shooting - you took off with the idea that I was talking about this gay bar - I wouldn't be caught dead in such a place so things would not follow what you think would happen - you put me in a place where I would never be - so everything you said about the furniture and everything else is not relevant - - second - I practice a lot with my firearm and can get many accurate shots off in a short time span - i third - I'm a Korean combat vet so shooting at people or getting shot at doesn't make me fall to pieces - too often people like you judge others based on how you would feel about things and the little experience you have - which often times is no where near what a real man would do - that's one of the big problems we have today - too many wimps and not enough real men around - I grew up when men were men and girls were girls - today half the time you can't tell them apart - be careful and don't stab yourself with the knitting needle -
You thought they were straight men and woman but many were not. Not that long ago gay/lesbian people started to come out of the closet. Most of us can look back and have an ah hah moment and realize that cousin or uncle, aunt, family friend was a homosexual. Back in your day you couldn't tell them apart, today everyone seems to know at least one or two people that are openly gay. We've come a long way baby. Your lack of ignorance doesn't give you a free pass. Wake up ! Homosexuals have been around forever. Even John Wayne was reported to be gay ! lol
I don't know about "The Duke",but,Rock Hudson sure as he** was. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog