Guns are the problem

I did read the statement, and it didn't really surprise me, one way or the other. What might people expect them say?......"OMG we are so sorry, we didn't think how it sounded or that it implied"?????

That said, if they really felt there was nothing wrong..aka no harm in it and thus no foul....no doubt some gun owners getting vocal plays a roll. Rabid antis can get vocal to, and that rarely triggers a responce. How many complaints did they receive? Don't know but I'd be surprised if it was over 1,000. < hardy numbers that would cause an organization to yank a campaign and flush good $ down the drain.

Edit add.
at the end if the day it was very poorly worded/phrased. If it resulted in 1 call, and 1 legal owner being questioned or harrased, that's 1 too many. Hence it came down.

Guns are not the problem. Neither are any other inanimate objects.

It was simply another attack on gun owners whether it was supposedly veiled or not. Intent is irrelevant. They are either incredibly inept or deceptively sly.... hmmmm.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.....(or billboard), it was incidental and not deliberate. It won't influence the unwashed masses one way or another right? Now we understand why the pen is mightier......

Many Canadians think guns are illegal anyway, because of this type influence along with the biased media. Just more of the same right?

Even OFAH quoted "It is inaccurate; misinformed; offensive; and perhaps, most of all, disappointing."

Yep, gotta watch those lil ol backwater town anti gun campaigns, whether intentional, fallacious or dumb.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Illegal guns in the hands of criminals are a problem. Not "the" problem in the sense of being the root of all evil, but a problem nonetheless. All the online caterwauling from gun owners (the threats to sue, the promises never again to donate one single dime, the demands for retractions and apologies, the wild conspiracy theories) ignored that simple reality. Those thumb-suckers on Facebook behaved as if it was all about them -- especially the people who supposed that this was actually a police conspiracy to undermine gun ownership.

These billboards were never about legal gun owners, yet lots of legal gun owners reacted as if the message were directed at them personally.



If you read Crime Stoppers' full statement, it is clear that they do not think the billboards were offside -- which is why some people continued to throw hissy fits after the fact, complaining that they were not groveling and begging forgiveness. Their statement could be paraphrased as, "Okay, if you're going to be jerks about it...."

The billboards were covered because Crime Stoppers did not want an ongoing circus that would distract from their organization's goals.

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"Illegal guns in the hands of criminals are a problem." Would that Crime Stoppers had used this exact wording they may not have draw the criticism of the firearm community at large. That said, if individuals are not in a position to realistically determine the background of someone in possession of the gun, or examine their licencing. Again your point about, a drug dealing family members in possession of a potentially illegal firearm, is well taken, I doubt, however, that family is anymore likely to turn them in because of the gun, if they have done so for drug dealing. In the meantime, what is mostly likely to be reported are, "legal guns in the hands of law-abiding firearm enthusiasts which should not a problem." It is again only my interpretation, but when you focus solely on guns being the problem, you draw undo attention upon anyone walking around with a firearm in their hand. Then if you add the incentive of offering a reward to anyone for ratting such out, you have definitely made having a gun in your hand a problem, whether it is legal or illegal.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

I doubt, however, that family is anymore likely to turn them in because of the gun, if they have done so for drug dealing.

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Your absolutely right.....they live by (and stay alive) by adhering to a stronger Billboard message: "Snitches get stitches"

Crime Stoppers is never going to trump that with their lame billboards trying to convince them otherwise.

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Originally Posted by welsh

I don't understand why we're locked in the mode of thinking this is about blame. It isn't.



Hunting, I hope..... :)



Setting aside the animal-rightsers, whose motives are malicious, the reason people call the cops when they see a person with a gun is that they perceive that people with guns are dangerous. I don't believe these billboards would create that perception; what makes people's minds jump to crime when they see a gun is what they see in the news. That's the dynamic that powered the Login mess: people jumping to their worst fears.

The reaction to the billboards has grossly overestimated how much effect a few billboards can have. The anecdotes posted in this thread, and incidents like the Login incident, are rare. I get seen with a gun often in the fall and haven't seen a cop called over it yet, and I'm not the exception. In terms of hunter hours afield, how many nuisance calls get made? All that news coverage of shootings and crime -- it takes over the entire news cycle several times each year -- and yet these nuisance calls hardly ever happen. A handful of billboards in a couple of backwater Southwestern Ontario cities isn't going to make much of a dent.

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A little bit of hunting was in there but mainly getting ready for moose camp.

I understand what you are saying and yes, what created and drove the Login mess was people jumping to their worst fears (as well as a lot of miscommunication). I disagree what people fears about guns is what they see on the news. Lack of experience with firearms coupled with the fact most people understand how dangerous firearms are when used by either the untrained or the criminal element is what makes people fear firearms because they don't equate other objects used in crime on the news quite as dangerous as firearms. However, when asked why they fear firearms they fall back to the illogical argument that "Guns are bad" or "Guns cause crime" putting the blame on the firearm rather than the user. I agree the billboards don't create this type of irrational fear but they certainly will reinforce it.

This type of irrational fear will make people do irrational things like call the police on a law abiding firearm owner when he is not doing anything wrong. If there is any doubt about that, I propose we try an experiment when I get back from moose camp, we can send Yedi into downtown London with an uncased firearm and see how long it takes people to call the police and how long it takes them to show up.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

"Illegal guns in the hands of criminals are a problem." Would that Crime Stoppers had used this exact wording they may not have draw the criticism of the firearm community at large.

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Agreed, but fit that on a billboard. ;)

The problem with slogans is they need to be snappy. Consequently, sloganeering is never very accurate.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

That said, if individuals are not in a position to realistically determine the background of someone in possession of the gun, or examine their licencing. Again your point about, a drug dealing family members in possession of a potentially illegal firearm, is well taken, I doubt, however, that family is anymore likely to turn them in because of the gun, if they have done so for drug dealing. In the meantime, what is mostly likely to be reported are, "legal guns in the hands of law-abiding firearm enthusiasts which should not a problem."

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The reality is that, thanks largely to tips, London police have made a series of busts over the past year for guns and drugs.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

"Don't drink and drive"
"speed kills"
"fatigue kills"
"Don't text and drive"
"guns are the problem"
"don't play with fire"
And many many many more.

Anyone but me see the vast difference? One identifies a thing, the rest describe actions.

its a a horrible message/slogan. Honestly don't know why it's being debated or defended.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

If there is any doubt about that, I propose we try an experiment when I get back from moose camp, we can send Yedi into downtown London with an uncased firearm and see how long it takes people to call the police and how long it takes them to show up.

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Good of you to volunteer Yedi for the job. We wouldn't want him getting bored. :)

I don't think there's any doubt as to how that would turn out, but let's remember that context matters. In a sense, he would be "doing something wrong," in that carrying a gun in downtown London violates social norms. A better question is how many times Yedi will have to walk into a field carrying a gun and wearing camo before some passing driver calls the cops on him.

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Originally Posted by JBen

its a a horrible message/slogan. Honestly don't know why it's being debated or defended.

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Honestly don't know why you say anyone's defending the slogan.

Let's see ... "confused messaging" ... "the slogan they chose was hardly the best even given that point of view" ... "'Guns Are The Problem' is a particularly clumsy message" ... "the messaging is not so good here."

That's what I've actually said about the slogan. The point I am making is not that the billboard slogan was good and effective, but that it was (a) not directed at legitimate gun owners, and (b) would be unlikely to have any real effect on legitimate gun owners, and also that gun owners ought to stop being hypersensitive little muffins and throwing ridiculous hissy fits (threats to sue on nonexistent grounds, etc.) over every perceived slight.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Good of you to volunteer Yedi for the job. We wouldn't want him getting bored. :)

I don't think there's any doubt as to how that would turn out, but let's remember that context matters. In a sense, he would be "doing something wrong," in that carrying a gun in downtown London violates social norms. A better question is how many times Yedi will have to walk into a field carrying a gun and wearing camo before some passing driver calls the cops on him.



Honestly don't know why you say anyone's defending the slogan.

Let's see ... "confused messaging" ... "the slogan they chose was hardly the best even given that point of view" ... "'Guns Are The Problem' is a particularly clumsy message" ... "the messaging is not so good here."

That's what I've actually said about the slogan. The point I am making is not that the billboard slogan was good and effective, but that it was (a) not directed at legitimate gun owners, and (b) would be unlikely to have any real effect on legitimate gun owners, and also that gun owners ought to stop being hypersensitive little muffins and throwing ridiculous hissy fits (threats to sue on nonexistent grounds, etc.) over every perceived slight.

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It does him good to get out.

Context does matter. No doubt about that. Crime stoppers, in the past, have been able to place a lot of information on their billboard signs. In this matter they did not. Perhaps if they had added more context by making the picture of the firearms a bit smaller and adding the word illegal, legal firearm owners may not have had so much of a beef.

If fit seems to be the problem, may they should invest in a lager billboard.
"SMALL BILLBOARDS ARE THE PROBLEM" - How's that for something snappy.
You mean to say the police were doing okay in catching up to those involved in drugs and having illegal hardware?
Why on earth, would Crime Stopper, bother to do something so ____________, that it is liable to garner tips, which are likely to draw the police, away from focusing on criminal activity.
Welsh, I'm pretty sure you can't turn this sow's ear into a silk purse no matter how good your intentions might be. It doesn't mean you have give me and perhaps others something to think about. The fact that Crime Stoppers has taken down the sign, at lease suggest to me that they realized that it was less than adequate, and might have produced some unforeseen consequences.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut