some people need to read regulations

I have been hearing about a few instances where some CO's are charging apprentice hunters who have their own bag limit under the migratory bird license with party hunting because they can not identify their birds they shot versus the birds the mentor shot. CO's separate the mentor/apprentice and then interview them. I know the Migratory Bird Act states there is no party hunting for migratory birds. However, tripping up an apprentice hunter in this way seems to be a heavy handed way to enforce the regulation as well as an extremely negative first interaction with a CO for the apprentice hunter.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

I have been hearing about a few instances where some CO's are charging apprentice hunters who have their own bag limit under the migratory bird license with party hunting because they can not identify their birds they shot versus the birds the mentor shot. CO's separate the mentor/apprentice and then interview them. I know the Migratory Bird Act states there is no party hunting for migratory birds. However, tripping up an apprentice hunter in this way seems to be a heavy handed way to enforce the regulation as well as an extremely negative first interaction with a CO for the apprentice hunter.

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It's always very important for all MB hunters to keep their kills separate,so,they can be instantly identified. Your absolutely right on the money that the "separate and interrogate" tactic disadvantages young,inexperienced hunters,but,if the apprentice is a minor,that tactic is expressly illegal when interviewing youths without an adult present (YCJAct). There'd be ZERO tolerance if it was my kid. "Heavy-handed" doesn't begin the describe it.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's always very important for all MB hunters to keep their kills separate,so,they can be instantly identified. Your absolutely right on the money that the "separate and interrogate" tactic disadvantages young,inexperienced hunters,but,if the apprentice is a minor,that tactic is expressly illegal when interviewing youths without an adult present (YCJAct). There'd be ZERO tolerance if it was my kid. "Heavy-handed" doesn't begin the describe it.

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Like I said, I have been hearing some reports. The person I heard it from has no reason to lie to me but I am only hearing one side of the story. I am sure the CO's is different. Could it be that the CO's have been given a zero tolerance policy to follow regarding F&W laws from now on to boost fine income? I wouldn't put it past our current regime at Queen's Park.

I love the no party hunting for waterfowl, maybe it only happens with people I hunt with but when a flock comes in often somehow more than one shot gets taken at the same bird, who does the bird belong to? The oldest hunter maybe the youngest maybe nobody definitely a tough one to prove any way you look at it either from a hunter or CO point of view. And yes I have cleaned birds that have different pellets in it. I guess some laws aren't that clear.

Kinda like party fishing.....nearly unenforceable!!!

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Originally Posted by Snip

I love the no party hunting for waterfowl, maybe it only happens with people I hunt with but when a flock comes in often somehow more than one shot gets taken at the same bird, who does the bird belong to? The oldest hunter maybe the youngest maybe nobody definitely a tough one to prove any way you look at it either from a hunter or CO point of view. And yes I have cleaned birds that have different pellets in it. I guess some laws aren't that clear.

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I watched us shoot 1 bird from 3 guns, we all sort of cringed. We had our fields of fire but we worked from the outside in and the 1 was right out front flying away and took 3 shots almost instantly, who puts that one behind their blind?

I also watched a cottontail get hit by 2 12ga shotguns in one bound, not much left for the pot.

You read the regulations and read and read and there are still situations where there is room for interpretation, not obvious stuff but it is there, I think they leave them in so that they can charge someone because there is something else going on. The sitting in a blind without a gun, if you are calling before legal light or without a license, it is part of the greater definition of hunting. Shining a spot light on deer in a field can get your nailed, gun or no gun, it is harassment of wildlife.

We actually had people coming up to hunt migratory birds, they are from the US, a CO was called and they were told that if the camera man was in a blind in the field that he would have to buy a license but in the case of a migratory bird permit he could not have a full bag as he was not shooting. He was hunting in one sense but due to the lack of party hunting his bag remained empty.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well generally I do agree with you that the regulations are pretty simple and easy to understand BUT that does not mean all and if you read them and think you have understood them you might get a unpleasant surprise.So I will give you a example of what I mean Page 23 of the regulations ROADS -Possession and Discharge of Firearms.So I,am in Wollaston Township, can I have a loaded gun in my possession while walking on a roadway during open season for Moose Season.
Does it change for Deer season and if i does,how does it change?

Lets talk about group hunting and the meaning of "immediate" when having to tag an animal when group hunting. The law says the tag holder must immediately tag the animal where it dropped.Your hunting in a group and your Dad who is 65 years old and is 4 kilometers away through the bush and is WALKING back to you.Is his 2 hour walk going to meet the criteria for "immediate".

I could go on and on but it might make your head explode.Now I will guess your first language is English, imagine trying to figure out the wording of some of the regulations if this is not your first language.

In my opinion your making this overly simplistic and if you have been viewing on here awhile we will have seen the hundreds of posts debating regulations and laws often misunderstood everything from trespass to controlled hunts.

In the "interesting story" thread which I think you might be alluding to in this thread we have three or four levels of courts and Judges making different decisions on the law with respect to baiting for waterfowl.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/...?resultIndex=3

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Gilroy I find your question with respect to your dad 2 hours from the kill site and the matter of 'immediately,' fascinating. Obviously if your dad is the only one with the appropriate seal for the down animal, then 'immediately' is relative to him being on site. In which case the notion of 'immediately,' become subordinated to any attempt to field dress the animal. The seal has to be attached to the down animal by the seal holder, immediately before any attempt is made to field dress the down game.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Gilroy I find your question with respect to your dad 2 hours from the kill site and the matter of 'immediately,' fascinating. Obviously if your dad is the only one with the appropriate seal for the down animal, then 'immediately' is relative to him being on site. In which case the notion of 'immediately,' become subordinated to any attempt to field dress the animal. The seal has to be attached to the down animal by the seal holder, immediately before any attempt is made to field dress the down game.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Please qualify your statement by posting the authority...

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Gilroy I find your question with respect to your dad 2 hours from the kill site and the matter of 'immediately,' fascinating. Obviously if your dad is the only one with the appropriate seal for the down animal, then 'immediately' is relative to him being on site. In which case the notion of 'immediately,' become subordinated to any attempt to field dress the animal. The seal has to be attached to the down animal by the seal holder, immediately before any attempt is made to field dress the down game.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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I have always found it interesting you have to tag before field dressing. In the 1980's in Grey County a hunter in a group that hunted beside us shot a doe and immediately tag the doe in the nose . And if you haven't guessed the doe got up and ran away. I trust the men who told the story. I wondered what to do if we shot the doe latter in the hunt. We never seen or found the doe. My dad has used the bullet behind the ear after the story., if unsure. To be sure it was actually a kill gutting it would make sense ( heart in hand) Though I understand that would/may not be consider immediate.By definition of kill a person may not be certain until heart in hand. Most times it easy to identify a dead deer. This post Not intended to get members worked up just a thought.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Please qualify your statement by posting the authority...

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not sure why he has to "prove" how he comes to the conclusion of what "immediate" means.. here is what is under the Party Hunting part of the regs..
Hunting Regulations 2016
•
2017 25

Party Hunting
A person may hunt moose, deer or black bear in a party even
if the person has previously attached his or her game seal to
a moose, deer or black bear. A person may also hunt elk in
a party with some restrictions in addition to the conditions
listed below - see page 53 for more information on Modified
Party Hunting for Elk. The term “Party Hunting” means two
or more persons hunting during an open season for moose,
elk, deer or black bear under all of the following conditions:
•
Each person has a valid licence to hunt the big game
species being hunted.
•
The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear killed
by the party does not exceed the total number of game
seals held by the members of the party licensed to hunt
that species.
•
The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear of
a specified sex, age or type killed by the party does not
exceed the total number of game seals validated for that
sex, age, or type that are held by members of the party.
•
All members of the party hunt together in the same
Wildlife Management Unit or portion thereof for which
the game seal is valid.
•
Each member of the party hunts within five kilometres of
the person who holds the game seal that is valid for the
wildlife being hunted.
•
Each member of the party must be able to reliably and
immediately communicate with other members of the
pa r t y.
•
All members of the party, including the person who
holds the seal that is valid for the wildlife that the party
is hunting, actively participate in the hunt and hunt
co-operatively.
The person who kills the wildlife while hunting in a party
shall immediately notify all other members of the party that
the wildlife has been killed and the game seal holder shall
immediately affix the game seal to the wildlife in the manner
indicated in the instructions accompanying the game seal.

now, it seems pretty clear that if the tag holder is to 'immediately' affix the tag, it would mean the tag holder affix the tag prior to the animal being moved, towed, transported or field dressed... this goes with all game animals.. as per the regs, and on the back of your deer seal/tag, all game animals are to be tagged on site , immediately after the kill... this is in the regs as well as on the Ontario natural resource site.... i am often so suprised during the turkey season as well.. see so many people ( especially on youtube) who film hunts, shoot a bird, run and pick it up, carry it to their blind, take photos etc, then tag the bird.. if the tags say immediately tag the animal, it means once you find the animal, immediately tag it.. don't throw in on the quad, gut it, get it to the truck/vehicle, then tag it.. i know the number of CO's around here are next to zero, but if caught, could cause some major issues if found gutting, towing or transporting a downed game animal with no tag on it..