Deer overharvest

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Originally Posted by seedoc

My point is: does the extended season, particularly a special season for muzzleloaders contribute to a lower population?

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NO it doesn't..

The basic concept ; the MNR allows everyone who wants one gets 1 Buck tag…knowing that the success rate for hunters at actually culling deer numbers over the entire season is about 25%. That’s is sufficient in many WMU’s to control the deer population annaully, especially when the allocation of antlerless tags is controlled and a percentage of deer taken are Does.

So with my 1 tag, I can either Bow hunt, Rifle or ML…one deer, my choice when to use it and by whatever means I prefer to hunt.

How in the world did you derive the notion that any one season has more of an impact on the deer population than another ?

The extended seasons were introduced to allow hunters to enjoy a separate season for sports like Archery and Black Powder. They do not increase the overall cull of the deer population, that is done thru the sale of additional tags in WMUs where it’s need.

If they issued specific tags for bow or ML. then yes, there would be more deer harvested..but that system doesn’t exist here in Ont.

Then ask yourself the more pressing question; why in Gods name do we have hunters like you suggesting that we limit hunting opportunities for other hunters ?

well said Mike ^^^

[QUOTE=MikePal;10414

Then ask yourself the more pressing question; why in Gods name do we have hunters like you suggesting that we limit hunting opportunities for other hunters ?[/QUOTE]

Mike,
Thanks for your answer. You make some good points. Too bad you ended with a personal insult.

Seedoc he asked a pertinent question that others have expressed agreement with already. If you choose to take it as an insult that's your problem.
The bottom line is that everyone can purchase one tag, at least around here anyway. Whether they choose to try and fill it in archery, rifle or ML season makes no difference at all in the overall population count. So to answer your original question I would say no. Archery season has always been three months, rifle two weeks around here. The only addition is the black powder season, which isn't an extra tag so I don't see how anyone could call it the cause of over harvest.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by seedoc

Mike,
Thanks for your answer. You make some good points. Too bad you ended with a personal insult.

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You asked a question and got the same response from everyone. I think the answer is clear whether you accept it or not...time to move on!

Ticks with lime disease, and Giardia along with many other reasons can be to blame for falling numbers in some areas. Coyotes numbers are high in many areas. The MNR control the tags so they are the one who make the decisions.

Put out a truck load of carrots and see if there is a shortage. We have pictures of 5 nice bucks 8 plus point chowing away. Shooting them is a different story. You might be surprised whats out there...not seeing them or seeing them during legal shooting could be many factors but no question there there lol

I disagree with most of the posts and for many wmus, imo, the original poster is correct in his assumption. Ive seen the provincial harvest data (provincial mail in survey). Late season ml hunts significantly increase overall harvest percentage (hunter success). Based on the data, some units had 60% more harvest when the late season 'll hunt was added. Being able to harvest any sex also compounded the effect when doe harvest increased. Classic examples are wmus 75 and 60. They got pounded when the late ml season with any sex was available. So easy to get your deer when they werer all concentrated and in the winter yards. I love to eat venison, but I'm happy that the late season 'll opportunities got cut back in both of these units.

Would love to see wmu 94 controlled hunt expanded to all of 94 with the same # of tags issued. Unfortunately in the early days a few misinformed people fought to keep the hunt out of their hunting grounds. The squeaky wheel got greased and only 1/3 of 94 gets the annual poundING by the orange army.
Anyhow... I'd love to see some cut backs in the controlled hunts.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Ive seen the provincial harvest data (provincial mail in survey). Late season ml hunts significantly increase overall harvest percentage (hunter success). Based on the data, some units had 60% more harvest when the late season 'll hunt was added.

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There is no way to know how many deer are harvested in Ont because there is no mandatory reporting and because the number of completed 'Harvest Returns' is so dismal...in a lot of WMU's it's less than 10%, so the data is irrelevant.

So when saying there is a 60 %" increase, that could simple mean it went for 10 guys reporting to 16 guys reporting from one year to the next.

More hunters being successful, because of the extra time in the field in a WMU, doesn't necessarily have a detrimental effect on the overall population of deer. As was pointed out, the overall success rate in most MWU falls well short of the numbers required to maintain the desired population. Additional seasons, additional tags etc are ways the MNR try to increase the overall success rate of the annual cull.

While an extra week of hunting will indubitably result in a more deer being shot, it in no way would it be in numbers that would effectively reducing the numbers to a point were there "are no deer"'... There aren't that many ML hunters out the there.