Yeah 50 yards, Umm... No!

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September 17th, 2019, 06:20 AM
werner.reiche

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S.

The level of confidence in archery, including max. shooting distance on a certain game, depend on many factors. Especially these days.
A seasoned shooter's 40 yards + consistency will exceed a novice's 20 yards best ever shooting.
Practice, learn, know your game, understand your limits.

Sound does not travel slower for experience hunters.
September 17th, 2019, 06:55 AM
Fox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Species8472

I did up similar charts at both -20 air and +20 air a few years ago. Essentially no difference even though sound is 6 or 7% slower at -20. My charts were also based on 0.2 seconds being the acceptable limit.

0.2 seconds is the time for the deer to react but they still have to move. A shot to the center of the vitals give you about 3in in all directions of travel.

Since most archery shooters considered 30 yards acceptable back in the days of the 250fps crossbow you are looking at about .275-.280 seconds based on your chart as an acceptable window.

That would stretch the reaction time + movement of the deer out to between 45 and 50 yards for a 350fps bolt and 60-65 yards for a 425fps bolt. Yes there is a drop in speed at range but there is a drop for close range too, so by comparison they are the same.

A calm deer also will not react as quickly as one on edge already.
September 17th, 2019, 06:59 AM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kavanagh

Again, so much of it has to do with having the experience to "read" what the deer is doing. A new, inexperienced hunter won't be able to. If they start trying to take shots at those farther distances they are just asking for trouble. Beside, bow hunting is about getting close anyway.

Just because you feel 30yds is your max doesn't mean it should for everybody else.
This sounds like other topics about rifles, "I cant shoot well past 100yds, so nobody else has any business doing so".
Not all gear performs the same, maybe the performance of your gear should also be considered as well as user skill.
Just the same not every deer jumps from a 40+yd shot...
September 17th, 2019, 08:13 AM
rick_iles

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW11

At 50 yards a deer has 1/3 of a second to move between the time the sound of the shot arrives and the time it takes for a bolt averaging 350 fps to cross the distance.

Maybe some people believe a deer can't move much in 1/3 of a second. It's plenty of time for things to end up like the picture in the OP.

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A deer at 50 yds will not bolt until it recognizes a threat. It typically will turn and look to see what a noise is. A deer at 20 yds tends to bolt and then stop to see what the noise was to identify it as a threat or not.
September 17th, 2019, 08:30 AM
G.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Sound does not travel slower for experience hunters.

That simple statement is always correct, could only hoped you would understand more
September 17th, 2019, 08:48 AM
GW11

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick_iles

A deer at 50 yds will not bolt until it recognizes a threat. It typically will turn and look to see what a noise is. A deer at 20 yds tends to bolt and then stop to see what the noise was to identify it as a threat or not.

I would agree and have seen the same for the most part, with the exception being if the deer already suspects something is wrong or is on alert, in which case they'll bolt at 50 too. Some newer hunters don't recognize the body language of a deer enough to know if a long shot is a good idea or not, which is what the OP is getting at. Keep it close, and you don't have to worry about whether or not the deer moves because it won't matter, they won't have time.

We have guys in this thread arguing that skills and equipment outweigh simple physics. One of these guys has already experienced string jump to an extent, refuses to see it, and tries to explain the strange wound angle with branch or rib deflections. Even though he stated that the deer looked at him first before he shot it at over 40 yards. The simple explanation is the deer saw him and was starting to bolt when it heard his crossbow, resulting in a strange angle of entry and a lucky recovery.

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September 17th, 2019, 10:24 AM
GW11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox

0.2 seconds is the time for the deer to react but they still have to move. A shot to the center of the vitals give you about 3in in all directions of travel.

Since most archery shooters considered 30 yards acceptable back in the days of the 250fps crossbow you are looking at about .275-.280 seconds based on your chart as an acceptable window.

That would stretch the reaction time + movement of the deer out to between 45 and 50 yards for a 350fps bolt and 60-65 yards for a 425fps bolt. Yes there is a drop in speed at range but there is a drop for close range too, so by comparison they are the same.

A calm deer also will not react as quickly as one on edge already.

Reaction time is the time it takes for a reaction to occur. Same way you don't have to think about flinching at a loud noise, a deer doesn't have to think about moving, the movement is the automatic reaction.

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September 17th, 2019, 11:12 AM
Deer Hunter

Seen an American on his last day shoot at a Caribou 72 yards away with a compound bow. Hit it good and luckily recovered it not too far away. I couldn’t say too much after missing a nice one with a rifle earlier in the week. Luck, Skills? Or both. I know he practices 365 Days a year and hunts 200 to 250 days per year. Not for everyone that’s for sure
September 17th, 2019, 11:44 AM
gbk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Seen an American on his last day shoot at a Caribou 72 yards away with a compound bow. Hit it good and luckily recovered it not too far away. I couldn’t say too much after missing a nice one with a rifle earlier in the week. Luck, Skills? Or both. I know he practices 365 Days a year and hunts 200 to 250 days per year. Not for everyone that’s for sure

Not challenging but the most "nervous"big game animal in NA is the Whitetail deer.
One of the most relaxed animal is the caribou.

I hunted with a similar guy ,who bragged all day long about him hitting 100% of the time a pie plate at 80 yards(good measurable if You ask me-pie plate 100% hit is the measurable for accuracy and consistency.)Skill and equipemnt came together too.
So he shot under a moose,and went home empty handed ,yet the moose was "only" 60 yards...and it was standing still.Not for long though.........
He misjudged the distance.
Good on him-he ate a humble pie,hopefully learned a lesson or two,and even better on the bull moose(at least it was not wounded ,perhaps never to be recovered).
He was told-You hit a Pope and Young-----poplar.

This is one part of the equation,equipment,shooter ,all can be there-but the animal has to COOPERATE,and the distance has to be accurate.
Then there should be no invisible sapling,no tremors,no wind beyond reason,no strange angle,no pin or cross hair hiding most of the vitals -just to name a few small issues ( for the "sure i can do it "ppl)

Short and sweet,long and dicey...........
September 17th, 2019, 11:48 AM
Fox

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW11

Reaction time is the time it takes for a reaction to occur. Same way you don't have to think about flinching at a loud noise, a deer doesn't have to think about moving, the movement is the automatic reaction.

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Is 30 yards an ethical shot with a 250fps crossbow, like an Excalibur Wolverine with 150lbs of draw?

If so then the math shows that 50 yards with a high speed bow is no different for reaction time, the numbers are the numbers.

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