The Calf moose discussion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cantgetright

I agree somewhat to what your saying. But its easier to manage a population of moose figuring the % of successful licensed hunters. How do you manage a number when you don't know how many FN are hunting them and how many are they harvesting? The last time we hunted Geraldton area(15 years ago) the 8 of us went home without a moose but the 16yr old FN kid that pumped gas for us managed to shoot 6 of them up to that point of the season so far.

---

It makes sense that you can make more informed decisions with better and accurate data i.e. harvest data. Not only do we not know what the total human-harvested totals are , the MNR doesn’t track road kills anymore nor do they know how many moose are killed by 4-legged predators. Wildlife management is far from being a precise science but rather it’s about “projections”, “confidence levels”, “ranges”, and statistics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

If this is how FN treat moose in this province, they are far from conservationists of the land. Sickening
https://www.baytoday.ca/local-news/m...-today-2120969

---

You can hardly draw any conclusions, based on the actions of one or two nitwits, regardless of race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam Menard

It makes sense that you can make more informed decisions with better and accurate data i.e. harvest data. Not only do we not know what the total human-harvested totals are , the MNR doesn’t track road kills anymore nor do they know how many moose are killed by 4-legged predators. Wildlife management is far from being a precise science but rather it’s about “projections”, “confidence levels”, “ranges”, and statistics.

---

Exactly…. moose numbers are being impacted by a host of issues, from the changes in logging practices, forest fire suppression, ticks, parasites, climate changes, predation, moose killed by trains, etc. etc….. I would hazard a guess
that hunting pressure has only a small impact on numbers…

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam Menard

It makes sense that you can make more informed decisions with better and accurate data i.e. harvest data. Not only do we not know what the total human-harvested totals are , the MNR doesn’t track road kills anymore nor do they know how many moose are killed by 4-legged predators. Wildlife management is far from being a precise science but rather it’s about “projections”, “confidence levels”, “ranges”, and statistics.

---

One more reason for the authorities to collect data-and work with facts.
It can be done to a whole lot higher degree then just shrug it off-life is life.

Roadkills, train collisions, regulated and non regulated harvest,heck,even skulls found in forest by happenstance could be reported for a nominal fee(to account for a degree of natural losses).
In the inhabited and frequented areas of Ontario they could get a whole lot more detailed picture.

Then,learn from other ones,who do this job with a greater success(Quebec is not that far)

If there is a will,there is a way.
It seems though- moose decline is being let go,for whatever reason.

Not challenging You Sam, but this great Province with all the resources ,can do only this much ? for the most iconic animal of our own!

Not to link in politics,but once i wandered WHY we can not be more successful with the Emerald Ash Borer?The most agressive approach was(what i know about)-do not transfer firewood!
We know what is happening to the once migthy Ash by now.

Then COVID happened.And the whole mess with it.With projections,statistics and modeling.

I think i understand by now-we are drived by inertia, and the fear of Politicians.
Commons sense is dead.Gut to deal with issues does not exist anymore.

Based on the above two examples,there is no doubt in my mind, so will our moose herd cease to exist, very soon.

At the end -no one will be even able to say to next generations to come-we did everything we could, to save the moose!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam Menard

There’s a common belief that indigenous hunting rights are responsible for the decline of fish and wildlife and that by making us all equal will somehow fix everything. Despite the fact that indigenous people have certain rights which allow them to hunt/fish without seasons or limits, more fish and game are taken by Licenced hunters and anglers. Since non-indigenous people make up the bulk of the population, we have the largest footprint and have the largest impact on most anything.
.

---

Depends where you live to see the impacts. Natives drive through my brothers area selling fresh salmon during the seasons. Pickup truck box filled with fish once a week for the in-towners. Cash only.
It used to be a sight to see yearly FN's spearing the walleye in a once full river, until the fishery was wiped out.
Until they hunt for only their own home consumption their impact would take many Caucasians to equal.

Not gunna lie, I use to have a buddy who use to hunt with natives with his uncle. Told me some crazy stories of what they do and how much game they take.

On the other side of things I've heard of guys who do some really really sketchy stuff as well while hunting. Whether it be snareing deer. Or hunting them out if season. Poaching etc. It's not just 1 group of people you can pinpoint.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowjob

It's not just 1 group of people you can pinpoint.

---

Any hunt camp going back a few decades has hidden secrets and stories only told to those trusted. It's part of the camps history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

Depends where you live to see the impacts. Natives drive through my brothers area selling fresh salmon during the seasons. Pickup truck box filled with fish once a week for the in-towners. Cash only.
It used to be a sight to see yearly FN's spearing the walleye in a once full river, until the fishery was wiped out.
Until they hunt for only their own home consumption their impact would take many Caucasians to equal.

---

What bothers me is who is buying the fish and game. If the non-indigenous weren’t buying it, then there wouldn’t be a market for it. I once confronted a guy from Thunder Bay who complained about indigenous hunting practices and linking it to a reduction of moose tags. Later in the conversation he admitted to having purchased fresh walleye from an indigenous fellow. His response was “Well, I love walleye, and the price was too good to pass up!” Hipocrite!

I scratch my head at the US war on drugs. Why spend billions of dollars fighting drug lords in Latin America and only a fraction to deal with the epidemic at home? If you eliminate the demand, then the suppliers will go out of business. Basic economics!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam Menard

What bothers me is who is buying the fish and game. If the non-indigenous weren’t buying it, then there wouldn’t be a market for it. I once confronted a guy from Thunder Bay who complained about indigenous hunting practices and linking it to a reduction of moose tags. Later in the conversation he admitted to having purchased fresh walleye from an indigenous fellow. His response was “Well, I love walleye, and the price was too good to pass up!” Hipocrite!

I scratch my head at the US war on drugs. Why spend billions of dollars fighting drug lords in Latin America and only a fraction to deal with the epidemic at home? If you eliminate the demand, then the suppliers will go out of business. Basic economics!

---

It's no different than our country's so called gun issues. The criminals getting caught are not being punished which does nothing to stop demand.
When sections of society are not punished for certain illegal acts, sadly demand will continue to rise with population

Every fisherman understands that the harder you work to get into a spot, the better the fishing will be. Any water without road access will be better.

Moose hunting threads are full of hunters complaining that drive up hunting isn’t working for them. Tag issues, reduced moose population, long drives, competition with FN.

Seriously, who’s looking at getting off the beaten path? Accessing an area by boat, canoe, train, plane etc? Seems as complaining goes up, effort goes down…or visa versa