New future field trial competitor

Jakezilla, you make some great points. You would be describing me to-a-tee 25 years ago! Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now-and-again, but the downside of breeding is that even the best ,most, knowledgeable, studied, breeders can't make guarantees. That's when I realized that I could best serve my customers by aligning myself with the best sources of the various breeds where I could actually "see what you get" - with some element of consistency.
My strength is in being able to see what I think will develop into a decent specimen however a breeder I am not.
You would think that after all these years I might be equipped to do so. That isn't how it works. It is a studied unique science that requires a huge dedicated investment in $$$$$$ and time. There is also an element of breeding ala-Whele, that many folk would find unpalatable, yet who can argue the results?
I recognize my strengths and will continue to develop them to my best ability. Breeding is not one of them. I wish more folk would leave it to the experienced/capable. We don't need MORE dogs. We need good/better dogs.

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Yellow dog, I don't think anyone doubts your expereience with sled dogs and I am always interested in what you have to say about nutrition and conditioning. But I sturggle when you start talking gundogs. From your previous posts it seems like you have never been to a trial/hunt test/Navhda event and this is your first springer. I am just curious about how you know she is a good one? Is it because you have worked with a bunch of springers and watched a couple hundred in action or because the internet and the breeder told you so? I know lots of people that think they have good dogs and in their eyes they do but only because their sample size is 10 a the most and they have never seen a good dog or a properly trained one for that matter. I know people that have been breeding and training dogs for 20 years but it doesn't mean they are good at it or know what they are doing it just means they have been doing it for 20 years and there are more than a few out there like that.


Not trying to pick on you but you have made some very bold statements that myself and, I am sure, some of the other expereinced people on the board are struggling with that cause us to question your credibility when it comes to gundogs.


You talk a good game but I am not buying it when it comes to gundogs. Help us out here. Lets leave the pedigrees, breeding and sled dogs behind for a minute and talk gundogs. How many gundogs have you trained? How many have you seen in action and under what circumstances? How do you know that your 6 month old pup is a good one and the exceptional type of dog most of us expect a foundation dog to be?


I live close to you and you are welcome out any time to train or talk dogs because I am interested in your experience with nutrition and conditioning and I just like talking dogs and training with new people.


One thing I have learned about dogs and dog training is that the more I learn the more I realize I don't know anything at all. Whenever I start getting too big for my britches I go and spend some time with one of my mentors and realize that I am still only a grasshopper.

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Jakesilla, Sorry you had to go to so much effort but I answered most questions in a previous thread answering Kraka.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Ugo

... There is also an element of breeding ala-Whele, that many folk would find unpalatable, yet who can argue the results?...

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ala-Whele (assume you meant Wehle)...the extent he went to with line breeding? I think he also did some significant outcrosses along the way to unrelated blood lines.

YD - we hashed through the 'expectations' thing in another thread - so no need to bring it up again here. You wondered why the OP didn't get jumped on like you did - his posts are more in line with what most of the dog people reading this think - yours in your thread were contrary to what dog people think. simple as that.

Guess all this winter is finally getting on folks nerves.
Leaving for Georgia next week. Burbon & Low Country food. Can't wait.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Jakesilla, Sorry you had to go to so much effort but I answered most questions in a previous thread answering Kraka.

Cheers

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Must of missed that thread while I was down south for a couple weeks training dogs. Can someone link it for me. There have been a couple threads but I don't remember reading anything about experience with gundogs.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

ala-Whele (assume you meant Wehle)...the extent he went to with line breeding? I think he also did some significant outcrosses along the way to unrelated blood lines.

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I think he is referring to the heartless culling program. You can't make a leap forward like Wehle or Miller by being a liberal dog breeder.

Elhew outcrosses were some of the best dogs around but it is fading now that Bob is gone.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

YD - we hashed through the 'expectations' thing in another thread - so no need to bring it up again here. You wondered why the OP didn't get jumped on like you did - his posts are more in line with what most of the dog people reading this think - yours in your thread were contrary to what dog people think. simple as that.

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Yes it is as simple as that,my point also.

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Must of missed that thread while I was down south for a couple weeks training dogs. Can someone link it for me. There have been a couple threads but I don't remember reading anything about experience with gundogs.

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You lucky dog.

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

I think he is referring to the heartless culling program. You can't make a leap forward like Wehle or Miller by being a liberal dog breeder.

Elhew outcrosses were some of the best dogs around but it is fading now that Bob is gone.

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Bingo!! I will keep my 2 cents short on this as I know better nowadays to get involved in these topics..first off to the original poster.....to say that is a "well loaded" Pedigree is an understatement......the "goods" are definately there....is that a Gaurantee? Not a chance!! but you are off to a good start....have fun....thats the best advice I can give you.....now back to the "Breeding" topic.......Jakezilla pretty much summed it up in his quote above.......very few people know how many Dogs came in and out of that Kennel just to make a few "good ones" and sorry YD...to make a statement like that...that your Pup will be the foundation of YOUR Breeding program is very Bold....dont misunderstand me....I wish you (and the Pup) all the best and hope it does achieve what you desire......what I want to know (and Im sure all the others here).....what is your secret in you knowing right now that this Pup will be that good? I have 2 pretty "Good" Dogs right now.....well, one is good (Pointer B i t c h) and the other I would classify as exceptional (Setter Male).....the Pointer could use a very nice Male to enhance what she may lack.....she's 7 yrs old now....I still havent found one....my Setter is everything you would want in a Bird Dog, Field Trial Dog and Cover Dog......I have been at this a good part of 30 yrs or more.....I still dont think I have "good enough" product to start a Breeding program.....am I picky? You bet.....am I passionate about Gundogs? Yup!! Like someone mentioned earlier (I believe it was JZ)....not many have seen a truly "good Dog".....like Ugo said....we need better Dogs...not MORE Dogs.....I wish you all the success in the world in your Breeding program....sorry for NOT keeping it short:ashamed: