Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
I had a gentleman tell me specifically, that the white man was responsible for wiping out the buffalo. It never dawned on me at the time that he was a racist, but now I get it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
I had a gentleman tell me specifically, that the white man was responsible for wiping out the buffalo. It never dawned on me at the time that he was a racist, but now I get it.
Really??? I mean really? Seriously? Just think about how ludicrous you are being.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelessarrow
Now you want to talk about people killing animals out of spite...you just named a perfect example...and who did it. Next up...Ontario's native elk population....must have been the FN that extirpated them...and our native turkey populations.
Hunting is a factor...but a small one, same as poaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
If hunting wasn't a factor in game mortality, dwindling populations, we would still have our original elk herd, original turkey flocks etc.
While our conservation efforts are....well...existent now...when the aerial surveys are done with such mediocrity and so intermittently how can we say that we are taking serious conservation efforts?
anybody think bear population might have something to do with it along with calf tags
Bears will go after calf's, but I'm not sure how often that happens, or if it is food source specific, last year the berries were plentiful, and sightings were down, the year before we got a heavy frost that killed all the berries and the bear sightings and nuisance bears were out of this world, I wonder if in that scenario, they go more aggressively after the moose.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazboxer
Not a biologist but dont think the berry crop would have anything to do with Bears taking calves. Most of the moose calves taken by bears are done well before berry crop is ready. The problem is that there is too many bears.
I personally dont think that hunting is a big part of a declining population, yes it contributes but only marginally. Just look at the population for the province, extrapulate the percentage of cows and try and figure out how many fetuses there are in December each year. Alot more potentially coming into the world than all hunting, poaching or FN harvesting put together. So the real question is where do they all go????
That being said it is the easiest area to point to, easiest area to adjust and least expensive solution.
Donnie
I don't really agree with a lot of what's being considered as the root cause.
Firstly, in this area we've always had bears and bear problems going back to the 60's. There was probably more bears back then than what there is now. We had far more blueberry crops back then because the local forests were decimated from acid rain. But berries and cubs come at different times in the summer as noted above.
We also had more moose but that was before ATV's, vast networks of logging roads, extended holidays, early retirements, all that stuff that gets hunters in the field easier, smarter and for longer times.
Railroad kills are way up with ribbon rail and those number are unreported. Unrestricted native harvest, tick infestations come and go but they've always been an ongoing culprit. Put it all together, throw in questionable population data from aerial surveys and we're bound to have cut-backs in licences.
There is simply gross mismanagement of the moose herd in Ontario. Comparing stats with our neighbor in Quebec who face the same challenges as we do with predators, poaching and FN harvest they appear to be doing something right and without that Pool 1 / Pool 2 lottery draw crap.
In summary and to translate the moose population has increased from 55,000 to 125,000 animals since 1994 and there are close to 175,000 hunters of which 15% of individuals have taken a moose on a yearly basis. Or as they put it a 30% success rate as 2 hunters are required to tag a moose in many zones. Pretty darn good odds if you ask me!
This information was obtained directly from the Quebec ministry website.
TABLEAU DE LA SITUATION ACTUELLE En 2011, on trouve des populations intéressantes d’orignaux dans la majorité des zones de chasse du Québec. Les zones situées principalement dans l’est de la province supportent des populations particulièrement importantes alors que, généralement, dans le nord et l’ouest du Québec, l’orignal fait face à la présence du loup et à un habitat de moins bonne qualité, ce qui l’empêche de prospérer autant qu’ailleurs. En 1994, la population d’orignaux était d’à peine 55 000 alors qu’elle frôle aujourd’hui les 125 000.
En raison de l’abondance d’orignaux, la récolte des chasseurs a augmenté de façon importante, soit de 20 % entre 2004 et 2010. Un sommet historique des captures a été atteint en 2009 avec plus de 27 000 orignaux enregistrés. L’augmentation de la population d’orignaux et du nombre de chasseurs a permis cette récolte record. De 2004 à 2010, le nombre de chasseurs s’est accru de près de 17 %, atteignant plus de 175 000 chasseurs. Leur succès de chasse fut excellent puisque près de 15 % d’entre eux ont capturé un orignal en 2009. Considérant l’obligation d’être deux chasseurs pour pratiquer la chasse de l’orignal, on peut même parler d’un succès de 30 % pour un duo de chasseurs.
No comparing the amount of bears now and even 15 years back! used to be treat to see a bear and unless at the dump, 3-4 bears sightings was a good summer! in recent years ive been day trips where weve seen as many as 14 on a single trip and 50 is not exagerrated for the summer! Simply no comparision!
Bears dont eat adult moose, they eat em in the first 3 weeks of their lives, long before the first berry shows itself! not saying they are the only issue, but the manitoba study should put to rest the theory that bears dont eat calves!
I dont think people realize how many bears can be fed from a baited site in the spring! 4-5 no problem, how many bear baits were setup each spring? its not just that there are more bears, there are more bears with a severely reduced food supply in april and May when humans brought em a food supply! Now they hunt their spring food supply!
That may be the case in some parts of the province but I absolutely guarantee that we had more bears in this area 30 or 40 and 50 years ago. They were here because dumps were still open and we had the best blueberry crops in the entire province. We had mother Inco to thank for that.
We also had a decent moose population that went along with that huge bear population.
I suspect the Wawa area was similar to some extent because they also had a defined area of sulphur kill--just not the scope that we had in Sudbury.
The big question is how do you get a realistic estimate of moose calves taken by bears when there is really no way to do a count or find carcasses. We assume and we make perhaps exaggerated claims because we want to believe they're taking a pile of calves. Where's the proof?