"Ghost" MNRF CO truck

Some of the most fun I had when "on the job" were the assignments to a selective enforcement unit (completely unmarked and tinted out) to nail the crap out of speeders in high risk collision areas and/or areas of high complaints of traffic infractions in residential areas. Outwardly,the units looked like any other vehicle parked at the side of the road/street,but,the inside looked like an airline cockpit. It wasn't uncommon to write a full book of tickets in one shift and the effect on infractions was dramatic. We'd set up for one day,wait a couple of days until the area "cooled down" then go back and hammer them,again,until we felt they "got the message." The effects seemed to last a long time before we needed to go back.
As for investigative technique,unmarked vehicles and plain clothes assignments are indispensible. Crooks don't usually act up when they know the cops are around,especially in FWCA enforcement by OMNRF officers. Sending a marked unit around to different areas certainly help in "showing the flag" as we used to call it,but,the real meat-and-potatoes is with undercover assignments and are usually the most risky for personal injury to enforcement personnel. Unfortunately,it sometimes goes with territory.

I think they should use the most appropriate tool for the job. However, I have to say that I don't have a problem being stopped or questioned by any officer in uniform, but I get indignant, to say the least, if some nonuniformed goof walks up demanding something...
In simple terms there are good guys and bad guys and they should be treated accordingly. I see a trend that some law enforcement thinks they can treat the regular guy like a criminal until proven otherwise. Unmarked cars, no uniform, paramilitary equpiment are all tell tales. Certainly, there is a place for all of that, but it should be plan B and not become the default.

.......... but I get indignant, to say the least, if some nonuniformed goof walks up demanding something...

Nope Plan A. I feel above is the wrong attitude. If they are questioning you be polite answer their question let them go on their way. If they got a guy acting twitchy got no problem with them getting control of the situation. Every one has the right to a safe work place. Don't want too see another person of service go home on their back.

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

I think they should use the most appropriate tool for the job. However, I have to say that I don't have a problem being stopped or questioned by any officer in uniform, but I get indignant, to say the least, if some nonuniformed goof walks up demanding something...
In simple terms there are good guys and bad guys and they should be treated accordingly. I see a trend that some law enforcement thinks they can treat the regular guy like a criminal until proven otherwise. Unmarked cars, no uniform, paramilitary equpiment are all tell tales. Certainly, there is a place for all of that, but it should be plan B and not become the default.

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I absolutely agree. A cardinal rule of plain clothes or unmarked units for law enforcement is to never confront citizens unless or until a marked uniformed officer is present with you. Personnel can get seriously injured or even killed pulling stuff like that and "I didn't know it was the police at the time,your honor" is a valid defense in Court. Except in dire circumstances where life is in danger and rapid,immediate,decisive action is needed to prevent loss of that life,will undercover or plain clothes officers act.
I,too,have zero tolerance for dough heads that think they're "somebodies" indignantly and disrespectfully demanding such things as ID or some "pass" and you just know they don't have the authority to spit. Bear in mind that all LEO's,provincial Offense Officers carry badges and warrant cards and they're required to produce them,on demand,by anyone. If some goof can't,they'll usually get told to go to hell,real quick,but,in such a polite way that they'll actually enjoy the trip. LOL

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I absolutely agree. A cardinal rule of plain clothes or unmarked units for law enforcement is to never confront citizens unless or until a marked uniformed officer is present with you. Personnel can get seriously injured or even killed pulling stuff like that and "I didn't know it was the police at the time,your honor" is a valid defense in Court. Except in dire circumstances where life is in danger and rapid,immediate,decisive action is needed to prevent loss of that life,will undercover or plain clothes officers act.
I,too,have zero tolerance for dough heads that think they're "somebodies" indignantly and disrespectfully demanding such things as ID or some "pass" and you just know they don't have the authority to spit. Bear in mind that all LEO's,provincial Offense Officers carry badges and warrant cards and they're required to produce them,on demand,by anyone. If some goof can't,they'll usually get told to go to hell,real quick,but,in such a polite way that they'll actually enjoy the trip. LOL

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Exactly!
Until I (and only I) am fully convinced that guy approaches me is legit, he is a threat and I will act accordingly! If some LEO doesn’t like that the public is doing that, wear uniform, drive a marked car or look for a different job in the first place!
There is a reason why all over the world law enforcement has been wearing uniforms for centuries! People who know they are guilty seek evasion when possible, but a good number of upright citizens will seek confrontation until they actually understand the situation and what role the play supposingly in it.
One thing I wonder: Waiving some potentially fake papers and badges are hard to evaluate for the layman from a distance. So if the situation is not clear and there is no grave danger to anyone around, what can I do to verify the legitimacy of the officer; e.g. call 911 and tell them to stay on standby until they confirm?

Unmarked units are a force multiplayer in that the same officer can lay more charges of higher quality in many instances. For the law abiding it is better use of their tax dollars. For the years I had hair half way down my back my uniform was a ball cap and vest with police written on it. I bet the druggies whined just like the poachers that wasn't fair ball.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Routine patrols with a green/white pickup will never the deter a local seasoned poacher.

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That's true. There's more than one kind of offender. But the "seasoned poacher" isn't your only problem out there. Small scale offences by large numbers of people, taken together, are just as important as continued, deliberate poaching by a few individuals. And this is to say nothing of the safety stuff -- how many people would start banging away 15 mins before legal shooting light if they knew the MNR was out and about?

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Originally Posted by Crash2000

There are always people who feel that this is unfair, or entrapment or that the unmarked vehicle is not needed, but the majority feels the opposite.

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Well, it's certainly not entrapment. But it's not only important to deal with people who break the rules; it's also important to consider what the message sent by the way you do it. "We're here to protect the resource and keep you safe" is a good message; "We're here to ding ya" is ultimately counterproductive. Good old Peel's principles: in the fish & game arena, most people care about the resource and are on the CO's side, and I think it's important to keep it that way.

Highway Traffic Act is another thing entirely -- most people violate it every time they step behind the wheel. That includes the police ... and me, too. The ghost car is obviously a useful tool there, and I think most of us accept that when we get pulled over for speeding, it's fair.

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Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

In simple terms there are good guys and bad guys and they should be treated accordingly. I see a trend that some law enforcement thinks they can treat the regular guy like a criminal until proven otherwise.

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Case in point re Peel's principles. The police are an extension of the people, and they can be effective only with our goodwill and support. That's not to be discarded lightly. :)

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Originally Posted by G Skinner

A couple of years ago there was a Min. of Ont . Mining truck running around in our area during the deer hunt . I'm sure he was coping down licence numbers on any vehicles parked along the road side . Ive also been stopped by the MNR in unmarked trucks . If you are legal " NO WORRIES ! "
Glen

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We were questioned at a private campground in Kirkland Lake by a CO driving an unmarked Jeep branded SUV, looking for information on who started a campfire on an island and didn't extinguish it properly, causing a bush fire.

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Originally Posted by mbhunter

Friend of mine is a retired CO. He said nothing gets your heart pumping like walking into a hunt camp and telling them you're there to seize every 30 calibre rifle for forensic testing.

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That's why I shoot a .35. lol

What Welsh said

Oh ya and I was in a trolling mood last night.