So now that communism is back...

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

Glad you said that Splaker. I have a family full of teachers who are all extremely hard working, caring individuals who commit many hours over and above what some would consider the minimum. I could cite many instances of going way beyond in looking after their students or assisting families and we're not talking just extra curricular here.

They get unfairly blamed for the sensationalism that Unions create....hell my family doesn't even support the Union actions and would just like to get back to doing their job without Union dictated actions.

Instead of generalizing the blame on 'teachers', let's be more accurate and specific and lay the blame on current and past governments for how they have chosen to create 'chaos' in the system. The recent Globe and Mail reports are a pretty good example of the governments poor handling. The same thing goes back to John Snobleton's admitted tactics under a previous government's incompetencies.

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I don't think everyone is putting all teachers in the same boat. I also have some family members that are teachers and very hardworking. I also know many people who are not teachers that go above and beyond that are hard working, caring individuals who commit many hours over and above etc. This is not something that only teachers are capable of doing. My brother worked 37 years for the board of education as a custodian for the first 25 years and the remainder as a Building Services Supervisor. He also was a union representative and vice president for some of those years. I have heard all the facts over the years from my brother who was deeply respected by teachers , maintenance staff and administrative staff. Unfortunately many are in it for themselves and it has become a chronic problem over the years stemming waay back . It will take many more years to change the mindset of these teachers because many of us have lost respect for them based on real facts. It turns my stomach knowing what I been told over the years and what I have witnessed.

certainly not painting all teachers with the same brush, but there are some pretty rotten ones out there too. so what's the system for giving credit to those who deserve and boot those out who should never ended up in the job to begin with?? law enforcement, same thing - all across public service the same problem.
blaming governments for that is what we typically do, but that has and will be pretty ineffective. even political parties are only puppets and not the puppeteer. lobbyism and corruption have and will exist, but the degree we see it today is epic.
Unions and the media have decided that old steve has to go. ultimately they decided on Justin, because he’s easier to control. If tom had a nicer smile and no brain we could just ended up with him as well. half the voters will vote what they get told to vote, not because of any particular reasoning and personal preference.
The unions became way too powerful. They run our country

The government insisted that no new money could be added to achieve the settlement. Most of the cost of education is salaries. In order to get the teachers a raise (after many years of no raise) they robbed Peter to pay Paul. The at-risk program isn't worth the money. So they removed the teachers and the funding for the program to gain some money to get a settlement by offering a wage increase.

They've also removed the classroom numbers caps so the classes can range from 25-35 or more. They do this so they can lay off teachers. Fair enough that's managements right. So instead of 3 classes of 20 kids you have 2 classes of 30 kids. Does that effect the kids ..... of course it does. I have less time to interact with each kid and I change how I test the kids because marking increases with 30 kids.

I coached almost every year and I had a stream enhancement program along with a classroom trout hatchery. I too got tired of the 3:20 track club (the teachers that are heading for their cars before the buses leave). They get paid the same money as me but they do nothing beyond the teaching day and the union defends their right to do nothing beyond teaching. I'm not a fan of unions but I've seen what the private sector does to good, hard-working employees when there's no union. I'll take the union with all its warts.

because of our unions here, there is very little investment in the private sector; i.e. manufacturing.
what is unionized you cannot touch, so any major for profit corporation shuts down the entire plant (instead of dealing with the union, you get rid of the entire problem) as soon as the plant payed for itself and before major upgrades would be required.
so there are de facto significantly less well paying jobs - because of unions!
less jobs means more competition (including other sectors) and people have to accept lower wages and whatever job they can possibly get - thanks to unions!
the public sector is tax funded. if you think these are safe, well paying jobs, look at Detroit's public servants.

Decided to finally chime in on this 2nd thread as well.
1) Nice to see a teacher or two point out that its not "teachers" but gov'ts, none more so than this one.
2) Nice to see a couple more teachers be a little more honest and include their Unions. Who shoulder most of the blame (imo) including the blame for the publics animosity towards teachers. They bring it on themselves (imo) or rather they (the Unions) bring on their members.

a little disappointed to see some bring up "yellow grass" to justify some things. All professions have yellow grass, whether its "extra curricular" activities or working overtime. Myself I haven't see a penny for OT in 20 years. Then again Im a "professional" and thats not the only "yellow grass" in my industry. Im sure almost all professions/jobs have yellow grass.

Dan O. While true there haven't been raises since around 2010 (not true for all)..Before 2010 Mcguinty lavished teachers with some hefty raises. Lets not forget that. On this next I could be mistaken, but I recall reading somewhere that Ontarios teachers are the or close to the highest paid and compensated teachers in NA...If true "whats the problem"?

When you consider what the mean duo income is (75k) and most of those without pensions and all of those work a full year (take the salary and annualize it $XX,XXX.00 for roughly 42 weeks =X/Week and then multiply by 52) Teachers have jack to complain about. Hundreds of thousands of tax payers have lost jobs, still looking. Or lost theirs and took something paying a lot less just to pay the bills (exploding bills)<<<Something the "jobless rate" doesn't talk about, and Ms Wynne doesn't like to talk about when she trots out numbers. In other words, yes for many teachers there haven't been raises....guess what. For most Ontarians thats true to, some took cut backs, many lost jobs, etc, etc....

Be glad, thankful your job is "recession" proof. Many Ontarians are still losing theirs

Class sizes?
maybe if overhead weren't so high, a few more teachers could be hired? Overhead can include many things. I know, what a radical idea.

What about EAs?
I would think they need a cup of coffee more than teacher and certainly way ahead of giving Unions kickbacks to the tune of millions.

There are reasons theres no money "for raises", for "EAs", for healthcare and more GPs so that the 800,000 tax payers without one can find one, there are reasons Johnny Q is taking tax hikes and exploding Hydro on the chin...and more.

That money is "ours", not the Unions...period, full stop, they shouldn't get a penny of it. Isn't that what Union Dues are for?

At the end of the day, remind us all who spends millions, maybe these millions going into Union pockets/war chest to campaign and get this admin elected? No one to blame but....
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As for the struggling kids and the funds being diverted. Those comments bother me. Good know our education zcars think trying to help them is a waste as they are wasted youth.


800,000 Ontarians with GPs and so much more that might be said. No money for Drs, no money for EAs, tax payers getting pummelled,

But millions for Unions? Who have worked so hard, spending millions....campainging for this admin and against who ever they don't like.

Carry on with the rest.

So, let me get this straight here. Wynne was just exposed giving unions kickbacks to the tune of $$ millions of dollars? How exactly is this morally different than breaking electoral laws in Sudbury? Stealing $ Billions from needy taxpayers to win 5 seats and then being under police investigation for bringing in a non vetted non security cleared non employee of the Province clandestinly after hours to wipe hard drives and coverup the evidence? Anybody see a pattern here? Face it. Ontario is populated with self entitled imbeciles who will condone this morally bankrupt behaviour. This is perfectly acceptable to the voters. This is the new normal. Bury your money and become part of the cash only world. It's only going to get worse now that JT will be sending her more money to burn.

When the liberals waste $1 billion on a gas plant scandal and they are still voted in, what kind of message does that send to the party? "Looks like the voters don't mind it, so let's steal more."

Election is over live with it for 4 years or is this like the 2old guy's in front of TD Canada Trust??
PS I never voted for the twirp

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Originally Posted by MarkB

When the liberals waste $1 billion on a gas plant scandal and they are still voted in, what kind of message does that send to the party? "Looks like the voters don't mind it, so let's steal more."

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To be blunt, most voters are dumb. Ill-infomred, concerned mostly about which govt is going to "give" them the most... The values of this country have been going down hill for 50+ years... Right around the time Pierre came onto the seen...

It's the reverse message of "ask not what my country can do for me..."

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Originally Posted by Splaker

To be blunt, most voters are dumb. Ill-infomred, concerned mostly about which govt is going to "give" them the most... The values of this country have been going down hill for 50+ years... Right around the time Pierre came onto the seen...

It's the reverse message of "ask not what my country can do for me..."

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At least once in every generation, a segment of voters remember that they can vote themselves somebody else's money. One (hopefully), maybe two terms until they remember why that doesn't work