CBC talks about firearms - fear mongering 101

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Originally Posted by welsh

True, but where is the misinformation in this case?

"Sniper rifle?" Would you prefer if they'd said, "this is an ordinary hunting rifle, as might be found in millions of homes in Canada ... thanks to the abolition of the long gun registry we no longer know who has these guns and why. Criminals can obtain them easily."

That would be 100% factually accurate.

Instead, we have a news report that, if anything, stresses the unusual nature of the shooting. I'd hardly call that sensationalism.

I'm going to suggest that gun owners are hypersensitive, and so they jump to attack any media reporting on firearms by nitpicking and quibbling, without considering what's actually being said.

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Can you blame us for being hypersensitive? We have been vilified by the press for so long. Lets add to that being automatically considered criminals if we did not register our firearms.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

At first I was going to agree with the general consensus about how this was reported and what terms the police used. However, the more I thought about it, the more I am convinced this was reported correctly.

First, lets look at the term sniper. A sniper is an individual who shoots at individuals as opportunity offers from a concealed or distant position. Now the definition doesn't denote distances. Many who think of snipers think of military snipers who engage the enemy past distances of 800m. However, police tactical snipers routinely engage targets at ranges of 300m or less (mainly because their error of judgment is significantly smaller than a military sniper). Police snipers train within the same distance as many hunters. I could make the argument that many guys who hunt are as skilled as police snipers (how many of us routinely try to "drive tacks" on the range). Is hiding in a tree, ground blind or a deer blind not considered concealment? So under those qualifications, most guys who hunt in the fall fit the bill of a sniper. I read a great book about the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment by Farley Mowat when I joined The Hasty P's (and have read it again and again) and in the book, the Germans and Italians had a real tough time when the Canadian Boys got ahold of a scope to put on their rifles as many of them hunted deer and the scope gave them a better view of their targets. They became for all intents and purposes defacto snipers.

Secondly, any rifle which is used by a sniper is a man portable, high precision, shoulder fired rifle designed to more accurate shooting at longer ranges than other small arms. This definition accurately describes most hunting rifles. Are some calibres better at longer distances than others? Absolutely but the definition still applies I think.

Lastly, the police describe whomever shot Yow Foo as a person with some considerable skill and some training. This statement is accurate because I think some folks are forgetting how much skill goes into hitting a target accurately. If you took Joe Blow with no firearms experience off the street today, set him up behind that rifle and told him to shoot a human sized target at 200 yards away in one shot without any experience on the rifle, do you think he could do it in one shot? Could we do it? Sure, however, we all know how to shoot (or at least we pretend to) and some of us are better shots than others.

If anything I can find about this is the detective describes this firearm as a "unique piece of kit" without elaborating or that the unique rifle would likely have been noticed by someone, as it isn't popular among hunters, who typically don't mount bipods on their guns. I am not sure what constitutes the rifle as not popular among hunters. Many lever action rifles have a bi-pod on them and if someone showed up to a range or a hunt camp with one, I wouldn't bat an eye.

Perhaps the media could have did a better job of why the detective made those statements (in the above paragraph) and included them in the story but they were reporting what the detective stated. If the police are looking for a suspect in a crime of a certain ethnicity, does the media need to do its own investigation to ensure the police have their facts correct? I don't think so. If you have a problem with the message, should you take it out on the messenger or the person who sent the message?

Dyth

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My problem is with the message actually and with some of the messengers too but to a smaller degree, in this case.

Definition
A sniper is a marksman or qualified specialist who operates alone, in a pair, or with a sniper team to maintain close visual contact with the enemy and engage targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the detection capabilities of enemy personnel.


Agreed, technically it is correct to say it is a sniper rifle if the person in question is a sniper but to me it sounds like fear mongering in a couple ways. The range is nothing outstanding really, especially with a half decent scope and in any of the BLR calibers. Heck when my Dad was teaching me some target shooting a few times we setup balloons at 200 yards to pop with the 22 and once you had the adjustment figured out it was relatively easy but I agree it took some practice but not alot.

After the first post about the CBC radio show seeing CBC show a BLR and talking about a sniper seemed rather buzz wordy (more so since the movie a couple years ago) atleast on the part of the police, to call the shooter or murderer if you prefer a sniper, uh, no. Police snipers often shoot from distances half or less that range and can from twice or more too. It is their training and skill that make them a sniper and I see no evidence of anything more than some murderer had some practice in this shooting as they have described it so far. If they show he had training, built a proper hide and was there unobserved (the shot was heard so no silencer was involved likely * Supersonic shells still would bang) I would agree he qualified as a sniper otherwise I would just say he was another murderer that used his weapon of choice in a murder wither it was a rifle, handgun or knife. A sniper has been in this (and other cases too) been reduced to someone that hides and shoot. One of the anti-hunting groups last fall was trying to portrait hunters as cold blooded snipers so perhaps the polices officers stupid definition hit one of my buzz words and the BLR made it look all the more like fear mongering or just plain ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by BigTurk

Can you blame us for being hypersensitive? We have been vilified by the press for so long. Lets add to that being automatically considered criminals if we did not register our firearms.

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Firearms are the only object I can think of that you don't have to use to be a criminal, a pilot's license, no problem unless you fly, a fishing license... same, driver license... same.... PAL... don't renew and you are a criminal!

A sniper is not a person with special qualifications. A sniper is, by definition, a person who snipes. Check a dictionary.

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Originally Posted by welsh

A sniper is not a person with special qualifications.

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I distinctly remember laying in my gillie suit sniping and the Sgt. kicking my the heal of my boot and telling me " You are no sniper Cpl.." :)

The military does consider a 'Sniper' as someone who has special qualifications..

(a very challenging course I might add)

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Originally Posted by welsh

A sniper is not a person with special qualifications. A sniper is, by definition, a person who snipes. Check a dictionary.

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Technically correct but in the big picture irrelevant as the connotation is more important than the actual definition. In today's Hollywood culture the term sniper has definite connotations of military prodigies capable of using firearms to kill people at outrageous distances.

Well there were actually a couple definitions for snipe, I just copy and pasted the one that fit. He wasn't the other either as to my knowledge that firearm is too big to use for hunting snipe. :D


1. pl. snipe or snipes Any of various long-billed shorebirds of the family Scolopacidae, especially the widely distributed species Gallinago gallinago.

Maybe a bit of overkill for a snipe, maybe the drug dealer had a snipe shirt on???But this one I cut and paste seemed like they are trying to make it fit by the usual distortion of it's original/actual meaning

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Definition
A sniper is a marksman or qualified specialist who operates alone, in a pair, or with a sniper team to maintain close visual contact with the enemy and engage targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the detection capabilities of enemy personnel.

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Letting Hollywood define the meaning and reality of things is like allowing a Liberal to try and balance a budget, prone to misunderstanding and fantasy without fact.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Technically correct but in the big picture irrelevant as the connotation is more important than the actual definition.

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Bingo....to snipe (verb) does not make you a Sniper (A sniper is a marksman or qualified specialist )


just as to doctor (verb) a wound (treat someone medically) doesn't make you a Dr.

Good retort MikeP.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Good take on it Dyth...

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............X2

I'm sure somebody here can find archived media stories on firearms where they use accurate descriptions of firearms and don't erroneously use terms like "automatic", assault weapon right? And they never have misrepresented any of the handling and storage laws right? No liberal has ever publicly stated that nobody needs semiautomatic guns?