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The fence sitters or middle ground non-hunters had very little effect on the return of the spring bear hunt. Having been involved right in the middle of this mess, I can tell you that it was municipal and provincial police agencies who had by far the biggest impact of having the hunt returned. They were fed up with doing what most perceive as MNR's responsibility-=-that is controlling nuisance bears and they let the sitting government know.
That I can credit Sawbill, but the "question" still remains. With everything we know about this admin. Do you really think they'd have gone ahead if opposition in the GTA was still stiff, and as a result it might cost them a few seats, no matter how much residents in the north were griping, no matter how much leo was griping and we were lobbying.
Lets not forget the MNR has griped about the lack of funding and manpower for the last 30 years........Hasnt accomplished much.
How many things can we rhyme off where the North, or the MNR has been screaming for years to have addressed. How much does QP listen?
Recall it was announced just months ahead of the election, a time when they were going to fall.
And don't forget the NDP were a threat (vis a vie many expected them to pick up seats, people were so pissed and fed up). Many people expected a Con Minority, and many Liberals to vote NDP....Na, buying some favour in the north doesn't conveniently address that. This is the same admin that was so afraid of losing three seats in the GTA they.............Not a hope in hell they do it, if the "middle" was against it.
And really, the pilot show that. Both how limited it was ( and many here pointed that out, including you if memory serves) and its duration, which gollly gee whiz is up just before the next election. A built in fail safe to pull the plug if opposition in the GTA.....Im sure they will say it's being pulled because to many Sows are being shot during it though.
Please.
:)
The best lies.
The best spins and smoke screens.
Contain just enough "truth"........aka "concerned about residents safety"
Gee I was pretty sure for years the MNR/politicians claimed there was no appreciable increase in bear/human encounters following the cancelation.
That's what I'm told,too,along with GTA cottagers who are sick and tired of having their properties ravaged by hungry Blackies and walking into one mell of a hess every weekend. The squeaky wheels get the grease,but,only in Liberal vote-rich Toronto. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Trimmer wouldn't that fall under the "middle" becoming more onside?
We predicted for years nothing would change until the problem up North, started affecting the residents in the GTA. Eventually it did get to the point where.
A) They became very numerous and a problem in Central Ontario (aka Cottage country)
B) A kid in the GTA got mauled. The past 6-7 years bears have been turning up in Oakville, Pickering, Whitby, New market with regularity. At first a trickle, now its "common".
Cause ( all those things listed above ) and Effect ( The non hunting middle being ok with a spring hunt). And for the politicians who don't give a hoot about us ( the public/electorate) or whats right (sometimes they do hard things that cost them votes but its rare). What matters most to them is getting elected/re-elected. Done.
There is no way to prove/disprove what might be different.aka settle a "what if"...aka What if, the middle in the GTA wasn't on our side finally and the risk of public backlash was still good/great that it might/would have cost them seats. However we do know this party will do anything, say anything to get elected....Not the least of which is brown nosing, pleasing the GTA. Or doing things that POs them ( see what the fear of losing just 3 seats is worth).
Does anyone doubt for 1 second that if the greater public though a gun registry was a good thing and not the waste we had been screaming about for years. JT wouldn't have it in by now? No, he won't touch that because the "middle"........
I think it definitely falls to the "middle" and this may be a classic example. Everything you've stated is absolutely correct and suddenly everything we've been telling the "middle" is,now,staring them right in their faces. Seeing is believing and the evidence is irrefutable. One of the "middle" that I worked with had his cottage broken into three times over the course of two seasons,each time he claimed damage on his insurance. After the third time,his insurance company cancelled his policy with the usual notification sent to the mortgage company who promptly fired off a letter that he had to find an insurance carrier or pay off the mortgage. It was SHTF time,then,let me tell ya. He found a carrier,but,his premiums quadrupled and his coverage was bare-bones minimum. It sure got his attention,right quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
grasping JBen...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
A letter from the town council (mayor) requesting service of the Ministry of Natural Resources (maybe thru the local MPP regardless if NDP/Lib/Con, wouldn't matter) to address the issue of the Bears becoming a Public Safety falls well shy of being considered the general public 'coming onside'...
And I dare say no party..NDP/Lib/Con would not address it…can you imagine the backlash if they ignored such a request and there was a bear/human conflict that caused death in that township.
Letters from town councils are considered about as much as our individual concerns are when it comes to the arrogance and omnipotence of any government ministry. Bureaucrats don't give a rat's a** about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I think the thing that is much more troubling than "the silent majority", is that in a population of 10,000, only 29 people [presumably hunters) bothered to make "pro" submissions and an even smaller number attended the council meeting.
Mike its you that grasping, arguing the inarguable ( that the middle isn't important), despite so many clear examples (in this case both the cancellation and reinstitution of the spring bear hunt being used to illustrated what should not have to illustrated, let alone debated) where the middle has factored heavily and will continue to, and without their acceptance we are doomed, and hence why people growing very exasperated.
And if you need any more "proof" Mike, although this is a poor example to illustrate the power of the "middle" because other things like $$ is the root and its not a case of the "middle" being the single largest by far determinant.
How much good are letters to town councils, MPs and more, comments on "EBRs" blah blah blag doing to stop wind farms. There are dozens and dozens of entire townships against them.....
Please just stop.