That' s the way it should work but in my experience most of the time it doesn't.
Printable View
That' s the way it should work but in my experience most of the time it doesn't.
Surprisingly I enjoyed reading the tail end of this thread, I was reluctant to click on it for fear that it deteriorated by now...
Thank you for thoughtfull contributions sidelock and jakezilla.
On the subject of breeding cows... Few breed clubs in Germany use Dogbase, it's genetics database and modelling software originally used for breeding cows ;) What it does it records various working attributes of dogs (based on tests), conformation to standard and health issues (such as hips and epilepsy). The culture of breed clubs is very different in Germany from the one in NA...
Of course, it's best to know the potential breeding pair (and their ancestors) personally, having observed them in the field (and home) many times, but it's not always possible.
One more observation. A wise man once told me - a lot of people are satisfied with mediocre (at best) dogs because of low expectations. This was mentioned here as well. The fact of the matter is most people hunt few days a year and the rest of the time, the dog is a pet. I know people who purchased pointing breeds and made flushers out of them (unintentionally by shooting not pointed birds), they take them to a preserve 1-2 times a year and are completely happy.
Some good points Vom. I think dogs in many ways reflect their owners.
I think that's very true , but I hope I'm nothing like this tough Jack Russell here. - no comments please. :)
Actually there is a connection. My husband tells me I always enjoyed the tough cases ( foster kids, jail clients) and that's why I like training a JRT.
I think dogs do reflect their owners.
Having a gun dog is new to me as I am 2 years into my first dog. I have hunted for years over different dogs but never really payed that much attention because at the end of the day I was just a guest. but now that I have started paying attention, reading more into it and talking with the experienced trainers/owners so I can train my dog wow it's a world in its own.
Its crazy how much and how different it is between breeds, breeders, do's and don'ts, do this don't do that, train this way, no train this way, this breed is better then that breed it makes my head spin. Really it does.
I love reading the more experienced peoples posts, so interesting.
A buddy of mine is looking into another GSP and showed me this kennel. Is this a good selection program the breeder does to get the best dog of his litter?
I think its a bit excessive and from what a few good trainers have taught me(one in particular on this thread which got me started and I thank very much) said not to do, and I can understand why, I feel this breeder could be over looking some great dogs and putting a negative trait into some of the other puppies.
I would love to hear your inputs.
Good observations here.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidelock
In the retriever world it is said.......'you own what you condone'!
I am not a pointer owner. I am a retriever owner but I think conditioning a pup for hunting is probably the same across the board. Timing for various things (bird introduction for example) will be different but the basics should be the same. I see no notes on socialization of the pups (might be omitted) to various stimulus. Without basic socialization skills, the dog is more likely to be intolerant (and possibly aggressive) of a variety of things. It also seems that introduction to anything is done in a manner which breeds alpha dogs which most guys in their hunting career don't need. For instance, if the bird introduction doesn't end up with a puppy running up to the dog, the dog isn't classed as hunting quality. Bird introductions need to be positive and fun and pup might need some encouragement not simply dropped into a cage with a live bird and told "off you go". This process by the kennel doesn't really have a lot of forgiveness to it and if I have learned anything by my hunting companion is that you need to be able to forgive laspes by your hunting buddy because your inadequacies as a trainer. But that is just my opinion, what do I know, these guys are probably very successful at producing high quality gun dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
Never read anything like that before. Interesting . Beautiful dog pics.
I like this , " We also guarantee to replace the dog with a dog of equal or better quality if any genetic defects show up which may adversely affect the dogs ability to perform in the field develop before the age of three years."
A person could get a fine gundog for less than those $$$.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
They would have to, with that selection process. Only the best get the seal of approval.
But even with the gun shyness, I was always under the impression that that is a slow and gradual process, Do you think you could ruin a prospect dog and make it gun shy if not properly introduced.
I told him that should be his next breeder when ready, you know your not getting a dud, plus ya the 3 year guarantee, that's pretty awesome.
But like I was saying the things people say not to do this kennel is doing.
Head spin.
Catching up ... been out of town. Pardon the shotgun post. :)
Benefits of line breeding are demonstrated, but a line of dogs identical in every respect ought to set a warning light flashing re lack of genetic diversity. If you get a serious problem in that line you can't eliminate it without an outcross, and if that breeding now dominates the breed's gene pool.... Well, look at some of the problems that come up in the show ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by sidelock
I would rather see a population of dogs that show great working ability across the board with a lot of variation in size, etc., than see a population of clones.
With all the emphasis we see on pedigrees and titles, I'm so glad to see this ... Paul McGagh, who is one of the leading field cocker breeders in the US, has said essentially the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakezilla
Remember, the only thing two dog trainers can agree on is what a third trainer is doing wrong. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gunner
This is a fascinating area ... as I understand it, ADHD (more accurately, hyperkenesis) is very rare in dogs. Obviously, you don't want to breed a dog with a genetic disorder and that dog may benefit from being medicated, but there is a risk that medication will become a fashionable solution to training problems in years to come.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
ADHD is massively overdiagnosed in children these days. My kids (diagnosed ADD) report that a majority of their peers in school have been diagnosed ADD or ADHD and medicated at one time or another. This clearly is a problem, given that ADD and ADHD are supposed to occur at relatively low rates. It's true -- the ADD/ADHD diagnosis and medication has become a convenient way of managing kids in the classroom: sedate them all.
So I would suggest that people who look at field trial dogs and see ADHD may be falling into the same trap.
Simon Gadbois, who does behavioral research on dogs at Dalhousie and trains dogs to detect endangered turtles and snakes for conservation biologists, suggests that the brain chemistry of "high drive" dogs differs fundamentally from that of sedate dogs. The high-drive dogs are governed by dopamines (the state of seeking) and the sedate dogs by the group of brain chemicals released by rewards. So your high-drive dog is difficult to reward and is in a continual state of seeking/hunting. (Gadbois may object to my butchered paraphrase.)
In any case, this is the natural state of those dogs. And the kicker is, these are the dogs he wants to work with in his training program, because these are the dogs that do the job best. These are the dogs field trialers breed. I'd say there is a real risk in manipulating that with medication.