Where's the moose you say??

I've been around a long time (not bragging) and have hunted most of my life. I see logging access roads built in the 30's and 40's that should have long grown over but are now wide open due to ATV's and off-road machinery of all types. New access roads are built every year.
There is not a moose hunter or camp out there today that doesn't have a battery of 4 x4s or ATVs in their party. Hunters are more affluent, smarter thanks to internet and have more equipment available to them and there's far more of them that what we saw in the past decades. So where can moose go to hide?
Absolutey nowhere!
If you want to see a moose herd returned to Ontario you'll need a moratorium on the hunt (that means everyone) for probably 5 years and then not allow ATV's to access remote areas. This is already done in hunt stressed areas of the States.
Its much easier to blame so-called high priced resource managers (who likely don't even hunt) than us hunters who've taken advantage of technology on a herd that started disappearing in the late 60's -early 70's--coincidently just about the time technology started to show up.

SB you too are right BUT those high priced managers still allocate tag numbers, seasons, calfs, cows, etc etc. In plain words they've been managing. Many of the states have more hunters in them then we do here and in an area 25% less and yet their game populations are flourishing. They have more technology then us and a lot more guns! They have kid hunts, bow hunts, rifle hunts, ML hunts. They have surplus tags at discount rates. How do they do it? Better managed! Their management is not tied to politics. Our overall goals on the gov't side has been to maximize licence revenues and try not to offend any whiners and anti's. After all they need all the revenues to support the whiners and anti's. toss in mass immigration and 1000 other social programs.
We need a Trump. He might be a wacko but I like him. Someone needs to say NO and make a tough call once in a while. Look what we got for provincially and federally. The country is being given away. a little off topic and I really don't care about all the other bullshyt because I could always escape to the woods for some sanity. BUT even this is being taken away!

Those high priced managers do not allocate tags. Their backgrounds may be private industry, they may have been foresters or land planners or fire staff. They manage people, prepare budgets and shovel money and funding to areas of government that they deem needs it the most. Often those priorities are determined by demands of politicians and very vocal and influential lobbyists. They probably don't hunt or fish--they just manage.
Biologists allocate tags. Those are the guys who make well under the pay most miners in Sudbury make or hydro linesmen. Most of the guys I know would like to shut the hunt right down but hunters demand the right to hunt. They push for hunting opportunities--longer seasons, specialized archery seasons, primitive hunt seasons, and on and on.
A good biologist should say KMA to hunters and say come back in 5 years and we'll give out tags then--but he wouldn't have a job for very long. So they do what the public demands.

Now that would be an interesting poll ?

How many of us would be willing to take a few seasons off for the good of the herd ?
I would have no problem personally; would just refocus on quackers for awhile.

-We had two cows in the food plot yesterday and their coats were pretty bad with ticks.
Fewer hunters would give the moose a chance to reproduce in greater numbers.
But I wonder what the solution is for these damn ticks, if global warming is the culprit for not killing off the ticks in the winter

If the moose herd in the states is doing good then our herd should not be down do to ticks/climate change.

Every event, no matter how insignificant it seems at the time impacts a population to some extent. Ribbon rail that railroads now use has upped that kill substantially. Ticks infestations can devastate a herd in that immediate area. We've learned how to hunt calves with more success. More road kill because of higher traffic numbers. Loss of habitat through logging and access. I think the jury is still out on climate change though. All these factors and more add up but its the hunting that has the most impact of all.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

The answer is fairly straight forward. Ontario has almost 14 million people. NFLD has only 530 thousand. Nowhere near the pressure and nowhere near the access.

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Agree no where near the pressure on moose as there has been no such people identified as FN whom were given special harvesting rights...

If you want proof it's a flawed system when the govt intended to recognize there was some FN on Newfoundland they estimated less than 600.. They got over 100,000 applications out of 530k...

Now why would that many people claim to be FN.....

What will happen to the moose heard if these so called FN get status will they have traditional harvesting rights to hunt for moose... But wait werent moose transported to the The rock in the early 70s

So even if some become Recognized as FN how would they have harvesting rights to a species that was not traditionally inhabiting the island..

Ohh and let's not even get started on the fishing... Claiming status sounds like a great way to avoid fish n game laws

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Originally Posted by sawbill

I've been around a long time (not bragging) and have hunted most of my life. I see logging access roads built in the 30's and 40's that should have long grown over but are now wide open due to ATV's and off-road machinery of all types. New access roads are built every year.
There is not a moose hunter or camp out there today that doesn't have a battery of 4 x4s or ATVs in their party. Hunters are more affluent, smarter thanks to internet and have more equipment available to them and there's far more of them that what we saw in the past decades. So where can moose go to hide?
Absolutey nowhere!
If you want to see a moose herd returned to Ontario you'll need a moratorium on the hunt (that means everyone) for probably 5 years and then not allow ATV's to access remote areas. This is already done in hunt stressed areas of the States.
Its much easier to blame so-called high priced resource managers (who likely don't even hunt) than us hunters who've taken advantage of technology on a herd that started disappearing in the late 60's -early 70's--coincidently just about the time technology started to show up.

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Great post I agree 100% again and have also to add this, with the cost of going up to the traditional areas to hunt,hunters with all their pick up trucks and ATV,s on the back have a substantial outlay of money before they even start hunting.With the price of gas I would guess for GTA hunters would be in the $1,000.00 range to say Thunder Bay, along with that the value of a full week off of work which is hard to come by these days and depending on your job your now adding probably another $1,000.00.

So they get home and the wife is asking where,s the beef, there has to be some added pressure here.

I think a 3-5 year moratorium is in order, politically if we did not pay for the Moose license,s it would hopefully sound some alarm bells at Queens Park.

Be interesting to run a poll on here to see what the other hunters think of a moratorium.

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Originally Posted by glen

If the moose herd in the states is doing good then our herd should not be down do to ticks/climate change.

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The herd in Minnesota is in dire shape. I believe they have cancelled their moose hunts.

If some of you recall there was a 5 year moratorium on hunting geese in Ontario. I can't recall the exact conditions or if it was all of Ontario but that worked.
The MNR is controlled by politicians who when in power make the decisions and to them wild game is a renewable resource that generates $ for them. We have to remember the government is here to help us and we have to stop P ing into the wind, cuz we will still get the same results.
I agree to a 5 year no hunting moose for everyone.