The ‘Pie Plate’ Grouping

Know your limit and hunt within it!

Shooting MOA groups from your bench is great, but it doesn't mean squat unless you shoot deer from the same bench. Practice in real-world conditions to know how you shoot in real-world conditions. If you can consistently hit the pie plate without a rest at a given distance, you are good to shoot a deer at that distance.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

If you are shooting off a bench and your sights and or fundamentals only allow a 5 inch groups @ 100 yds, one is better off finding a better gun or a load and spending one's money and trigger time improving one's shooting skills.

Shooting consistent 5" groups @ 100 yds is not equivalent in any measure with shooting the same grouping size @ 300 yds.
It is why shooting a 5" group offhand @ 100 yds is different than a 5" group off of a rest.

The results of poor marksmanship, a poor rifle and a poor load only gets worse at distance from muzzle.

A 5 " group off of a bipod@300 yds is equivalent to ~1.5@ 100 yds. 1" group @ 300 yds is equivalent to ~.3"@100 yds.

However, a 5" group@ 100 yds is equivalent to ~15" @ 300 yds, whether from a bench or off hand. That would miss many deer vital zone completely and many whole deer completely.

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Again, totally missing the point of the thread and my comments. If 5" is a satisfactory 300 yard group for shooting a deer at 300 yards then a 5" group at 10 yards is a satisfactory group to kill that deer at 10 yards, plain and simple. Use whatever method you want, a running deer at 10 yards or a standing one at 300, you hit the pie plate and the deer is dead, period, end of story, who cares what the gun does off the bench.

I have said for years that if one wishes to be a better big game hunter, time spend chasing small game with a 22 or air rifle will improve your shooting. A small game hunter only has a 1 to 1 1/2 inch target most times. Every shot he takes has to be with in a one inch group at ranges from 25 to 75 or more yards.

But the fact remains if you set up your big game rifle for to smallest tightest groups you can shoot of the rest and still put a group in the five/six inch circle without a rest you will humanely take game.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

I have said for years that if one wishes to be a better big game hunter, time spend chasing small game with a 22 or air rifle will improve your shooting.

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Growing up on a farm, we used to use pettet guns with open sights to shot chickens and rats...you had to make head shots to kill them. Took a lot of skill and we honed it over the summer months.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Again, totally missing the point of the thread and my comments. If 5" is a satisfactory 300 yard group for shooting a deer at 300 yards then a 5" group at 10 yards is a satisfactory group to kill that deer at 10 yards, plain and simple. Use whatever method you want, a running deer at 10 yards or a standing one at 300, you hit the pie plate and the deer is dead, period, end of story, who cares what the gun does off the bench.

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You are simply stating again the vital zone area at 100 and 300 yds which nobody is really arguing. Having a gun and the ability to place a kill shot or shots of a said combo with 5" grouping capability IN that vital zone @100 under hunting condition is really the debate.

If you feel that is good enough for you give 'er.

If anything like a limb or branch obstructs any of your 5" vital zone or even the view of that zone, a 5" grouping combo of you and gun now presents an interesting dilemma.

I wish I had known you were so interested in 5" grouping rifles, I would have offered you the Browning before I sent it back.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Growing up on a farm, we used to use pettet guns with open sights to shot chickens and rats...you had to make head shots to kill them. Took a lot of skill and we honed it over the summer months.

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Great practice. I have sat many hours in the aisle of the barn waiting on the vet at night and shooting rats/mice with a 22 pistol.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Having a gun and the ability to place a kill shot or shots of a said combo with 5" grouping capability IN that vital zone @100 under hunting condition is really the debate.

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You're still not grasping it..the target at 300yds is 10" ..a shot anywhere on the 'pie plate' is a kill shot..if you aim at dead centre and you bullet hits 5" away...it's still a kill shot...

Mike, if you are happy with a gun/human combo that shoots at best 5" groups off a rest that's ok.

My standards are higher.

If you can place 4or 5 in a 5" group @ 100yd off hand, that is ok with me also and decent shooting.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

If you can place 4or 5 in a 5" group @ 100yd off hand, that is ok with me also and decent shooting.

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We all agree on that and I think that was the original point of the thread. 5in off the bench and I would also sell the rifle to Fox. Lol. Just funnin with ya Fox.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

We all agree on that and I think that was the original point of the thread. 5in off the bench and I would also sell the rifle to Fox. Lol. Just funnin with ya Fox.

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Sounds good to me.

I read once years ago if one could put around 6-8 in a pie plate off hand at 100m you were Olympic material with the proper further training.