Looking for a Lab

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Originally Posted by singlemalt

Moderators, I just went back into my previous post twice trying to add a word. It kept deleting it. Is this really a dog forum which does not allow the proper term for a female dog? ;)

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Yes. :)

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Originally Posted by singlemalt

Moderators, I just went back into my previous post twice trying to add a word. It kept deleting it. Is this really a dog forum which does not allow the proper term for a female dog? ;)

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A bit auto censor here. Had similar problem referring to a certain species of willow. Best I could do was refer to it as Feline willow.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

A bit auto censor here. Had similar problem referring to a certain species of willow. Best I could do was refer to it as Feline willow.

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ROFL. Best auto-censor workaround yet.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Stick to your choice of what you want in a Retriever, you will find it.
I find it really amazing that there are so many out there that are constantly trying to tell people what they should buy based on their own choice.
Here we have an retriever owner that has been with Labs for a long time and knows what he wants, yet others are trying to change his mind because "this is the type of dog that I have and like, and I believe that you should have one also ".
This is just like someone saying "I drive a Chev, So it is the best truck for you , because I say so" .

This is what "singlemalt " was looking for;
[COLOR=#000000] I like a smaller dog, what I would call an "old fashioned lab". I want a birdy dog but also calm and naturally quiet. 90% of what a duck dog is supposed to do in nothing. I like the ones who are good at that part. Coat is also very important to me. I hunt a lot late season and many of the field trial labs I see these days have a coat which is little better than an English Pointer.

So why not help him find WHAT HE WANTS !

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ive been back and forth thru this thread and cant find anyone trying to get anyone to buy a dog they don't want in fact just the opposite ,repeated reiterations that every one should have the dog he wants, also alot of very sound advice from some very knowledgable people and a few flippant tonge and cheek remarks regarding ft bred labs,hey but it is all in fun,this thread is about the original poster and it seems to me all comments are really there for him,now he can sift thru it and make an informed decision based on the information, finding him what he wants? , looks like all have been contacted with the info they were seeking ? ive been following this forum for for like 10 years and have commented little due to the amount of times threads get derail and turn into something else .ive learned that people just don't know what they don't know,and they are going to listen to who they are going to listen to

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Originally Posted by Ugo

I don't pretend to have the wisdom of some in this particular subject especially where Labs are concerned. That said, I would be disappointed to see you leave singlemalt. The most salient reason is because we ALL can learn something from most everyone in this forum. To insinuate that we all always agree with each other is laughable however it does fuel our passion by virtue of those very same dynamics - agreement or disagreement. Besides, we want to pull the same way more-or-less and not serve the antis.
As to Labs - again, while not an expert allow me to offer this. There is a misconception within my clan (F.T. pointing breeds) that field trial bred dogs are haywire lunatics that will either go through your window or dig through your drywall for a sparrow. For the most part, certain non-hunters/non-field trialers have utilized this fallacy for self-serving motives. Nothing is further from the truth. I have developed quite a number of field trial dogs from horseback breeding to perform as delightful foot-handled gun dogs. More importantly, most of these dogs are companions in the home ~92% of the time. One English pointer out of Texas is literally a consummate couch potato and won't even climb out of his bed when I enter their home! He is a true part of their family in every way - calm, smart, biddable, friendly....amazing in the field!
On the flip side, I have HAD to develop dogs that were predominantly show bred to become field dogs. The challenge can be....significant. Further to that, I had one here that literally cannibalized it's own foot! It was insecure, volatile, needy/whiney, and severely lacking in natural ability.
To say that ALL F.T. bred dogs are delightful companions is no more realistic than to say ALL show bred dogs canalize themselves.
While genetics play a big part in the fabric of a dog, so does the owner/training/home environment/demand.
All of my customers expect wonderful companions in the home first and foremost. It's a given. There is still an expectation of capable field performance when the opportunity is there whether they hunt 3 or 30 times a season.
So, in my experience, the odds favour you getting a lovable companion as well as a capable canine athlete from a F.T. bred dog than to make a lovable companion and a capable canine athlete from a show dog. .....just sayin'.
As for coat, you should be able to address this requirement reasonably easily singlemalt. Go and see the dogs for yourself, as suggested. Then, draw your own conclusions. Now, since you want a hunter and not a trailer, you might skip trials and go straight to the hide/blind and see these dogs in a hunting application. Your eyes and your heart will serve you well, as will the pedigree that supports a rich history of field performance from unbiased third party observers.

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UGO, we've never met, but I want to tell you that your post is one of the best I've read on this forum. When someone says, I don't need one of those FT bred dogs, I hear, I want a hunting dog that won't take up too much of my time. They need a cat.

+1, and the dog described by the OP sounds just like the 13 yr old Lab which just left us 2 weeks ago. Hard to replace.

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Originally Posted by Labber

UGO, we've never met, but I want to tell you that your post is one of the best I've read on this forum. When someone says, I don't need one of those FT bred dogs, I hear, I want a hunting dog that won't take up too much of my time. They need a cat.

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chit scott you just made me shoot milk out my nose,have you ever considered a career in stand up now we have met but I want to tell you that your post is one of the best set up and delivery of the punch line I have ever read period.normy is really wearing off on you :P I was just getting used to the normisms and now here comes a scottism ..... YIKES!!!!!

I have never met you either Hugo but your reputation certainly proceeds you.wish I had your talent for putting into words a bit of insight that also applies to our clan, and in a way that I cant see how anyone could mistake for some kind of beat down.absolutely solid.i have had the pleasure on several occasions to work my retrievers along side the pointers of some one you have mentored,Spencer Ray,and to this date have not seen finer pointing dogs,impressive,always enjoy talking dogs with Spencer,his success and the impressive work I witnessed assures me he's got it right.i to was lucky enuff to start out with the right people and escape the misconceptions and fallacies that are pushed by some and recognize good sound methods and breedings that will increase my odds of getting the dog with the right stuff.

Thank you for the kind words. The reason why I am where I am is because I have travelled that very same road(s) that each and everyone of you has travelled or is travelling. The difference where I'm concerned is that my passion made me a fanatic many years ago (~1978). It's the reason I am where I am now and the edge I have over some. On the downside, I am a "thick" study. Many of you would have surpassed me years ago given the same opportunities. The downside is that the many years I spent away trialing/judging all over the USA came with a price. I am truly blessed to still have my wife (in 2 weeks of 40 years!) and sons that still care for me. There is a dark side which I would not impose on any of you. Suffice-to-say, my dog training program had a steep cost.
Spencer is a wonderful trainer and stands on his own in that regard. I gave him wings - he soars on his own merit. I too had a mentor many years ago, a salt-of-the-earth gentleman (Pete Dolynski) that passed-on prematurely. Without him, I would never have had the successes in trials that I had early on. Let me share a quote he endearingly shared with me after a trial in my embryonic years, "Ugo, that dog did amazing....in spite of you." The sad part is, he was right!
Not to hi-jack, the OP needs to find what he wants as already mentioned by many. In that, lies a responsibility that is his and his alone. If he is happy we all are happy for him, I'm sure. If he is not, he alone will need to deal with the result of his choice. I learned a LONG time ago to be cautious of being too opinionated re a question like the OPs. I once recommended a certain breed from a certain breeder. My customer followed my lead and acquired THE most ornery, relentless, cement-headed, renegade I have EVER had to work with! Guess who had to get that turned around? I took a BEATING!!!
It's great that we all have an opinion. At the end-of-the-day, the OP needs to make the call but it helps to have this range of choices. Well done, y'all!
A cat eh......? Hmmm...any recommendations on a breed/breeder?

Having had the burden of having a cat in the house since I married my wife my experience is they won't hold and tend to creep. Don't like to retrieve to hand either. But, they are cheaper to feed and don't destroy grass.

There is currently a 6 month old black lab from FT stock sleeping at my feet. Around the corner is a 8 year old yellow from FT stock having a post breakfast nap too. Our house is not destroyed.Attachment 34817