some people need to read regulations

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Originally Posted by Hardman

I have always found it interesting you have to tag before field dressing. In the 1980's in Grey County a hunter in a group that hunted beside us shot a doe and immediately tag the doe in the nose . And if you haven't guessed the doe got up and ran away. I trust the men who told the story. I wondered what to do if we shot the doe latter in the hunt. We never seen or found the doe. My dad has used the bullet behind the ear after the story., if unsure. To be sure it was actually a kill gutting it would make sense ( heart in hand) Though I understand that would/may not be consider immediate.By definition of kill a person may not be certain until heart in hand. Most times it easy to identify a dead deer. This post Not intended to get members worked up just a thought.

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Poke it in the eye with a stick, anything alive will react to that, make sure it is dead, you do not need the heart in your hand to be sure it is dead.

The problem is all the guys who would dress them and then put a tag on, or dress them then bring them back to the camp and put the tag on, or dress them then bring them back to the camp, cut them up and put them in the freezer and not put the tag on.

It makes it a lot easier to stop poachers when the rule is to immediately tag the animal, this keeps from these guys who would poach if not caught from being able to do it so easily.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Poke it in the eye with a stick, anything alive will react to that, make sure it is dead, you do not need the heart in your hand to be sure it is dead.

The problem is all the guys who would dress them and then put a tag on, or dress them then bring them back to the camp and put the tag on, or dress them then bring them back to the camp, cut them up and put them in the freezer and not put the tag on.

It makes it a lot easier to stop poachers when the rule is to immediately tag the animal, this keeps from these guys who would poach if not caught from being able to do it so easily.

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agree, and that is why they have to include the "immediate" tagging in the regs,, too many people in the past have gotten away without tagging the animal as the laws were more lax back in the day... if anyone believes you have to have "heart in hand" to ensure the animal is dead, is just waiting to be nailed... if anyone uses that excuse it will surely get them nailed for failing to tag a game animal.. simply poking or nudging with your foot ( never stand in front of the animal as it could gore or injure you if not dead, animals when spooked will lunge forward) to ensure it's dead.. once you confirm it's dead, tag it...

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Originally Posted by buckluck_9pt

not sure why he has to "prove" how he comes to the conclusion of what "immediate" means.. here is what is under the Party Hunting part of the regs..
Hunting Regulations 2016
•
2017 25

Party Hunting
A person may hunt moose, deer or black bear in a party even
if the person has previously attached his or her game seal to
a moose, deer or black bear. A person may also hunt elk in
a party with some restrictions in addition to the conditions
listed below - see page 53 for more information on Modified
Party Hunting for Elk. The term “Party Hunting” means two
or more persons hunting during an open season for moose,
elk, deer or black bear under all of the following conditions:
•
Each person has a valid licence to hunt the big game
species being hunted.
•
The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear killed
by the party does not exceed the total number of game
seals held by the members of the party licensed to hunt
that species.
•
The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear of
a specified sex, age or type killed by the party does not
exceed the total number of game seals validated for that
sex, age, or type that are held by members of the party.
•
All members of the party hunt together in the same
Wildlife Management Unit or portion thereof for which
the game seal is valid.
•
Each member of the party hunts within five kilometres of
the person who holds the game seal that is valid for the
wildlife being hunted.
•
Each member of the party must be able to reliably and
immediately communicate with other members of the
pa r t y.
•
All members of the party, including the person who
holds the seal that is valid for the wildlife that the party
is hunting, actively participate in the hunt and hunt
co-operatively.
The person who kills the wildlife while hunting in a party
shall immediately notify all other members of the party that
the wildlife has been killed and the game seal holder shall
immediately affix the game seal to the wildlife in the manner
indicated in the instructions accompanying the game seal.

now, it seems pretty clear that if the tag holder is to 'immediately' affix the tag, it would mean the tag holder affix the tag prior to the animal being moved, towed, transported or field dressed... this goes with all game animals.. as per the regs, and on the back of your deer seal/tag, all game animals are to be tagged on site , immediately after the kill... this is in the regs as well as on the Ontario natural resource site.... i am often so suprised during the turkey season as well.. see so many people ( especially on youtube) who film hunts, shoot a bird, run and pick it up, carry it to their blind, take photos etc, then tag the bird.. if the tags say immediately tag the animal, it means once you find the animal, immediately tag it.. don't throw in on the quad, gut it, get it to the truck/vehicle, then tag it.. i know the number of CO's around here are next to zero, but if caught, could cause some major issues if found gutting, towing or transporting a downed game animal with no tag on it..

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I'm pretty sure I know what the ACT says . I also know what immediately means. In the context of party hunting, if the tag holder is within the 5kms,, it can take an hour or so to get to the kill site. In that case the term immediately has new meaning. There is no mention in the FWCA, prohibiting the shooter from dressing a moose, before the tag holder gets there to tag it. If the shooter is also the tag holder, then the term immediate applies.
As long as you don't remove the animal from the kill site prior to the tag getting there, no offence committed. Allowing an animal to lay in the sun and bloat, spoiling, waiting for the tag to get there, IS an offence...

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

I'm pretty sure I know what the ACT says . I also know what immediately means. In the context of party hunting, if the tag holder is within the 5kms,, it can take an hour or so to get to the kill site. In that case the term immediately has new meaning. There is no mention in the FWCA, prohibiting the shooter from dressing a moose, before the tag holder gets there to tag it. If the shooter is also the tag holder, then the term immediate applies.
As long as you don't remove the animal from the kill site prior to the tag getting there, no offence committed. Allowing an animal to lay in the sun and bloat, spoiling, waiting for the tag to get there, IS an offence...

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Ya, no problem with the dressing but the kill site is key. If they said not before dressing then people would haul it back to camp to dress it to skirt the rules.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Ya, no problem with the dressing but the kill site is key. If they said not before dressing then people would haul it back to camp to dress it to skirt the rules.

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Fair enough, but that wasn't what was posted. There is no offence of field dressing an animal before it is tagged! The offence is failing to immediately tag the animal. The word immediately is open to interpretation, depending on the circumstances.
As Gilroy posted, party hunting is one of those legal circumstances where immediately has a different meaning, than when the shooter is also the tag holder.

i understand what you guys are saying, about it not saying to tag before field dressing.. however, the insertion of the word immediate , I believe, is to make it clear that the first thing that should be done to any wild game is to tag it... hence the word immediately... i sent yet another email to my local CO here as i always send them questions when it comes to reading and interpreting these regs and laws.. they enforce it so they will have better understanding as to what is expected from us hunters... i will post their response once I get it...

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Originally Posted by buckluck_9pt

i understand what you guys are saying, about it not saying to tag before field dressing.. however, the insertion of the word immediate , I believe, is to make it clear that the first thing that should be done to any wild game is to tag it... hence the word immediately... i sent yet another email to my local CO here as i always send them questions when it comes to reading and interpreting these regs and laws.. they enforce it so they will have better understanding as to what is expected from us hunters... i will post their response once I get it...

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You must be keeping Mark busy !!!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Fair enough, but that wasn't what was posted. There is no offence of field dressing an animal before it is tagged! The offence is failing to immediately tag the animal. The word immediately is open to interpretation, depending on the circumstances.
As Gilroy posted, party hunting is one of those legal circumstances where immediately has a different meaning, than when the shooter is also the tag holder.

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I have heard of people being given the third degree for taking photos before the person with the game seal showed up, I know that most COs would know that you were just waiting around but there are also some who would go at you for any interpretation they could have on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I have heard of people being given the third degree for taking photos before the person with the game seal showed up, I know that most COs would know that you were just waiting around but there are also some who would go at you for any interpretation they could have on the matter.

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There's no question about that. That's why there are supervisors and courts !!

Here is an interesting situation that actually happened to us. We were party hunting deer in a controlled hunt several of us sat on escape routes from a thick swamp area. We sent 2 guys in across a pasture field from a road to go through the swamp to move things around. No deer were spotted. The 2 guys left the same way they went in and upon walking back to the truck they noticed deer tracks in their footprints in the snow and laughed about being outsmarted. Upon getting in the vehicle the 1 guy noticed a deer piled up against the fence along the road 20 yrds in front of the truck. They went over and sure enough it was the deer that came out on their tracks appeared to have run into the fence and broke it's neck stone dead. Is this an animal that should be tagged legally or is it considered a found deer and you just fill out the info on the ministry site? How does it look hanging with other deer if no tag is on it and a CO comes by? Again hard to believe but this really did happen.