Buying a new moose gun

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

To be honest, I don't know if you can buy it here in Canada. I just did a bit of a search and found that there is a company which packed a heavier round in 30-30 than 170 grain. I am sure something could be worked out though.

I will be honest, I wouldn't feel comfortable with using a 30-30 for moose but that doesn't mean I think a 30-30 isn't capable of killing a moose. Using a round which has more energy at longer ranges lets you have better options in the field. Is energy the be all and end all of moose killing? No. Bowhunters don't get the KE which gun hunters get (they are more worried about momentum, which is important for penetration, anyways).

The reading I have done indicates the momentum required to kill a moose is around 25 slug feet/second for vital shots from bowhunting forums which I have read. At 150 yards, a 170 grain 30-30 bullet has 1755 fps which gives a momentum of 43 slug feet/second which should be enough to penetrate a moose and kill it if you go for lung shots.

Swedish hunters successfully use a 6.5x55 Mauser for their round of choice and a 156 grain traveling at 2203 fps has a momentum of 49 slug feet/second. They are successful with moose, despite having a much smaller diameter bullet.

Dyth

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Many moose hunters hunt in areas where a 500 yard shot is entirely possible but many claim that the 308 Win and 30-06 are ideal with the 300 Win Mag being a good magnum option. A standard 180gr 300 Win Mag at 500 yards has 1525 ft lbs of energy, the 30-06 with that same bullet has 1225 ft lbs at 500 yards and 1475 at 400 yards, so about 100 yards behind the 300 Win Mag. If a 300 Win mag is good enough for moose at 500 yards then a 30-30 is good enough on moose at 150 yards, it is an almost identical bullet with very similar velocity entering the chest of the exact same animal but yet one is marginal and one is ideal, makes me shake my head.

This reminds me of a guy who I was hunting with who said he could run faster than my 30-30 or 12ga slug and that they should be banned in the deer woods but then handed me a 44 Mag and said "Here, take a real gun". The guy had no clue what he was comparing to.

Back when you were using the flat point and round point loaded 30-30 yes, a good 100 yard deer gun with energy dropping off like a rock and only a close range moose gun but all of that has gone away with the pointed boat tail bullets, the best thing that happened to the 30-30 since the invention of smokeless powder and its creation.

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Originally Posted by line052

The Savage Axis line in 30-06, 7MM, 300 or 308 will do the job. I have seen on MEWE all three of those guns with scopes for less than 500. Lots of 300 and 7MM. Seems no one wants to pay to feed them. These post are usually in around southern Ontario.

As for 308 and the 150 yards, the savage Axis is the best out of the box gun I have owned. See my other post where I just picked up a brand new Savage Axis 2, Snow Camo in 308 last for $509 in Ottawa. The gun will never fail to perform, is deadly accurate and the 308 is cheap to feed, plus has more ranges of bullet heads (110-180 Grains offerings). I even custom load 130 gr for coyote in 308.

You wont break the bank and have money left over for a good pair of boots to do all that walking/stalking.

Cheers Mark

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Going to have to go +1 on this.

I've got the Savage Axis Stainless in .308, and have zero issues. It's literally the boat paddle, don't worry kind of gun that drives tacks.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

literally the boat paddle, don't worry kind of gun that drives tacks.

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The best guns for hunting, they do the job and you could care less about a few scratches.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Many moose hunters hunt in areas where a 500 yard shot is entirely possible but many claim that the 308 Win and 30-06 are ideal with the 300 Win Mag being a good magnum option. A standard 180gr 300 Win Mag at 500 yards has 1525 ft lbs of energy, the 30-06 with that same bullet has 1225 ft lbs at 500 yards and 1475 at 400 yards, so about 100 yards behind the 300 Win Mag. If a 300 Win mag is good enough for moose at 500 yards then a 30-30 is good enough on moose at 150 yards, it is an almost identical bullet with very similar velocity entering the chest of the exact same animal but yet one is marginal and one is ideal, makes me shake my head.
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Fox you won't get near posted velocity on the box from a 30-30. Nowhere close. 16-20 inch barrels have way less velocity than the test Barrel length which is likely 24 inches or 26. When I'm at the range anybody there is welcome to shoot by my labradar and you wouldn't beleive the disappointed fellows that walk away very unhappy once they find out what their go to hunting round is really travelling.

Drop 150 to 200 fps of the box claimed velocity and feed those numbers into a ballistic calculator.

It really surprised me how much even a two inch difference in a barrel can make with regards to velocity. I saw it in my ml projects. 26 vs 28, same barrel manufacturer, same tolerances but a heck of a velocity change load for load.

I know 30-30 will kill a moose but why on earth one would purposely choose that round over so many more capable rounds on the market makes little sense to me.

IMO great short range deer round but that is about it.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Fox you won't get near posted velocity on the box from a 30-30. Nowhere close. 16-20 inch barrels have way less velocity than the test Barrel length which is likely 24 inches or 26. When I'm at the range anybody there is welcome to shoot by my labradar and you wouldn't beleive the disappointed fellows that walk away very unhappy once they find out what their go to hunting round is really travelling.

Drop 150 to 200 fps of the box claimed velocity and feed those numbers into a ballistic calculator.

It really surprised me how much even a two inch difference in a barrel can make with regards to velocity. I saw it in my ml projects. 26 vs 28, same barrel manufacturer, same tolerances but a heck of a velocity change load for load.

I know 30-30 will kill a moose but why on earth one would purposely choose that round over so many more capable rounds on the market makes little sense to me.

IMO great short range deer round but that is about it.

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There was a guy on here loading that 160gr FTX bullet, he was using the Chronograph and was actually running faster than spec, as has been noted in many different tests of this product, the numbers are close.

http://ataleoftwothirties.com/?page_id=522

Factory barrels for 5 different rifles, Rem 788 slightly below, Savage 340 further below, Win 94 and Marlin 336 are right on spec with what Hornady is listing and the Browning is actually faster than the Hornady spec.

If you go way back to before the guy went at me for saying the 30-30 is capable at 150 yards for moose and great for deer the discussion was about what Super Magnum the original poster needs to buy as a moose rifle for 150 yards. He stated that there would be a lot of hiking and walking with a maximum range of 150 yards. There is no need for anything larger than a standard 30 cal deer hunting rifle for this task, the 300 Win Mag, 338 Mag, 7mm Mag, Weatherby, etc, are so much more expensive to shoot (less practice shots), cause massive amounts of recoil (less practice shots) that tend to cause people to develop a flinch (less accuracy on game) and come in rifles that weigh a lot (a huge pain for hiking and climbing all day). The OP was asking what would be a decent moose rifle in these conditions and I simply stated that any of the 30-30, 308, 303 Brit, 30-06 would be totally capable with the proper ammunition (160gr FTX 30-30) for the purpose outlined.

The 30-30 gets poo pooed so much but it has killed more game in North America than anything else, maybe not in Canada (303 Brit) but throughout north America, it has stuck around for this long and just got better with this new ammunition.

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Originally Posted by Fox

There was a guy on here loading that 160gr FTX bullet, he was using the Chronograph and was actually running faster than spec, as has been noted in many different tests of this product, the numbers are close.

http://ataleoftwothirties.com/?page_id=522

Factory barrels for 5 different rifles, Rem 788 slightly below, Savage 340 further below, Win 94 and Marlin 336 are right on spec with what Hornady is listing and the Browning is actually faster than the Hornady spec.

If you go way back to before the guy went at me for saying the 30-30 is capable at 150 yards for moose and great for deer the discussion was about what Super Magnum the original poster needs to buy as a moose rifle for 150 yards. He stated that there would be a lot of hiking and walking with a maximum range of 150 yards. There is no need for anything larger than a standard 30 cal deer hunting rifle for this task, the 300 Win Mag, 338 Mag, 7mm Mag, Weatherby, etc, are so much more expensive to shoot (less practice shots), cause massive amounts of recoil (less practice shots) that tend to cause people to develop a flinch (less accuracy on game) and come in rifles that weigh a lot (a huge pain for hiking and climbing all day). The OP was asking what would be a decent moose rifle in these conditions and I simply stated that any of the 30-30, 308, 303 Brit, 30-06 would be totally capable with the proper ammunition (160gr FTX 30-30) for the purpose outlined.

The 30-30 gets poo pooed so much but it has killed more game in North America than anything else, maybe not in Canada (303 Brit) but throughout north America, it has stuck around for this long and just got better with this new ammunition.

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The guy is shooting with a 94 with a 24 inch barrel. Try that with a typical 20 or 16 inch and see what you get.

I can only speak to what I see and the chrony doesn't lie. I've loaded for a few. LVR is better than what was available before but you haven't changed my mind;

The 30-30 isn't a great choice and plenty better are out there.

Attachment 35014

I bought this baby with a bid of $400 at Switzer's on Saturday. It's a Savage Model 111 in 300 Win Mag in "like new" condition. This will be my moose rifle. I already have a 44-40, 35 Rem, 7.62 x 54R and 270 Win. I wanted something that would kill at a longer range, say on the other side of a swamp. The price was right and these things are tack drivers.

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Originally Posted by Roe+

Attachment 35014

I bought this baby with a bid of $400 at Switzer's on Saturday. It's a Savage Model 111 in 300 Win Mag in "like new" condition. This will be my moose rifle. I already have a 44-40, 35 Rem, 7.62 x 54R and 270 Win. I wanted something that would kill at a longer range, say on the other side of a swamp. The price was right and these things are tack drivers.

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It was you that I lost to!

Well done!

I didn't see you Rob, I was sitting at the back of the room.

I was on line. I was totally unsuccessful.