Deer wmu 47

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I can't say the MNR has done a bad job of managing the Deer herds...at least in Eastern Ont. We were awash with deer 10-15 yrs back so they increased the amount of Doe tags in the draw and provided 'additional' tags. It worked, the hunters culled off and reduced the numbers to where they deer herds were more sustainable and less human deer conflicts.

In the ensuing years, the draw results were keep low fewer than 20 % in most MWUs. We were lucky to have one Doe Tag in camp of 10 hunters. The deer herds have rebounded due to milder winters etc and the MNR is now adding more tags to the draw. We had 5 in camp this year.

They do a pretty good job...the only ones who seem to complain are the hunters who aren't seeing, what they feel, is enough deer. Which, ironically is the desired result of a well managed herd. We shouldn't see deer every time we are out or there is something wrong with the population density.

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The north-east district (WMU 47 and much of 48 & 49) situation is much different than eastern Ontario. When the generous allotment of doe tags brought the herd down from the peak of 15 years ago to more sustainable levels, the tags still kept coming in copious numbers in the years that followed. It wasn't until after the back-to-back hard winters of 2013/14, the tags were reduced in WMU 47 from 6000 to 4000, but it was too late. Might as well have reduced the tags from 60,000 to 40,000 for all the good it did. The herd was knocked on its azz but the tags still kept coming like candy; more tags than a camp could ever hope to use.

MikePal, you'd have to see it to believe it. Aside from a few pockets, most of the north-east district virtually deer-less . Report after report from long-standing camps camps of 10-20 hunters harvesting or even seeing zero deer over a 2-week season. My camp is 100 years old and has detailed harvest and sighting records going back 50 years. We know what normal is and this is not normal. The last time it was this bad was the early 1970's. This isn't about pining for the glory days, its about a herd in crisis that needs help to recover and a Ministry that is tone-deaf.

^^^. What he said. Our camp is in 49 and the herd has been decimated. Yes strong words but the unfortunate truth. This year we didn’t even hear wolves or coyotes. That tells you the deer aren’t there. The first week of the hunt was totally silent. Never heard a shot. It was like the season hadn’t started. We used to hear surrounding camps shoot all day every day. Drastic measures are needed in our area. There should be no doe tags issued for 5 years and the season cut back to one week. Drastic yes, but necessary.

The assumption that the MNR manages deer herds at all is wrong. They manage tag sales through the limited data they receive through hunter questionnaires and very limited deer yard surveys.

That's great that they got it right in Eastern Ontario but my guess it that would have been mostly by BS luck. Like ninepointer said, they gave out extra tags like candy for too long in too many WMU's because they liked the extra revenue too much and had no real grasp on what was happening with the deer populations. That combined with the upswing in the coyote population has led to a total collapse in some areas.

That's not just me being upset because I'm not seeing as many deer, that's the reality. Ontario is big... what might have worked well enough in one region didn't work at all in others.

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it's true 47 hasn't recovered from the back to back hard winters of 13/14 , what the deep snows didn't kill the wolves did. The other serious problem is the late archery season. When the deer start to migrate and are in the wintering areas they are sitting ducks. I know many of the hunters from the older traditional camps would rather wait till after the gun season and the snows come to fill their tags.

Some biologists in both peterborough and minden/bancroft districts should have been fired in 2013-14 on the grounds of being totally incompetant as wildlife managers. They ignored their own Owsi data and continued to issue ridiculous amounts of antlerless tags when their own data clearly showed there was a catostrophic total loss of the fawn crop both years. The second December hunts should never have happened in the following years and the antlerless tags should have been cut by 80% for at least a two year period. Makes me wonder why they even bother running the provincial snow courses if they're not using the data to make management decisions. A waste of taxpayers dollars to even send a tech out weekly to collect the data. I have pretty much zero trust in mnr to manage the resource in a responsible manner. It shouldn't come as any surprise that the north end of 75, all of 56 and 60 are deserts for deer. The idiots in charge of managing the resource are asleep at the wheel. Get your doe tag next year and put it on a buck only.

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Originally Posted by terrym

^^^. What he said. Our camp is in 49 and the herd has been decimated. Yes strong words but the unfortunate truth. This year we didn’t even hear wolves or coyotes. That tells you the deer aren’t there. The first week of the hunt was totally silent. Never heard a shot. It was like the season hadn’t started. We used to hear surrounding camps shoot all day every day. Drastic measures are needed in our area. There should be no doe tags issued for 5 years and the season cut back to one week. Drastic yes, but necessary.

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And yet it wasnt that long ago (2014, I believe) that WMU 49 had additional seals for the first time ever. There was deer everywhere. Behind every maple tree, in every cedar swamp.

Winters have been very hard of late for deer. Central ON is not tradionally a strong deer area. Its marginal deer habitat at best.

Am I seeing something incorrectly? Isn't this also one of the designated moose areas the MNR wishes to see the whitetail population knocked down in? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the moose got the crap kicked out of them up north to make way for the woodland caribou that will never return and in turn the whitetail in these areas knocked out to recuperate the moose population.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Am I seeing something incorrectly? Isn't this also one of the designated moose areas the MNR wishes to see the whitetail population knocked down in? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the moose got the crap kicked out of them up north to make way for the woodland caribou that will never return and in turn the whitetail in these areas knocked out to recuperate the moose population.

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I'm not sure where that information came from. ???
In my opinion the " the moose got the crap kicked out of them up north" had nothing to do with some ingenious designed plan but rather another failed MNR management system that gave preference to a certain group of people, amongst other issues.

It’s not too complicated, our wildlife has been mismanaged for years now. All they care about is getting our tag money and then they also mismanage that. Friggin joke IMO.

I dont even hunt 49 anymore. Camp owns 700 acres and thousands of crown around it. Walk all week and dont even see a deer track. Last good buck we got up there was in 2011. We aren't even seeing deer during the moose hunt(before they migrate when snow falls).

I will only bear and wolf/coyote hunt there now as they are still over populated. Wish I knew locals that ran hounds up there that I could join with, knock the wolves back a bit

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