Printable View
Amen to that, and he'll learn the hard way. What he doesn't realize is the "critisism" he's receiving here is no more than an attempt by more experienced hunters to save him some grief.Quote:
Originally Posted by bester
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
I've shot deer as close as 7 yards from me and the majority of deer I shot were within 30 yards, so labelling me as some reckless hunter that just likes to shoot things far for fun is pretty ignorant, and the ONLY people trying to place restrictions on archery hunting are people trying to gatekeep archery. The main people pushing to remove scopes on crossbows in BC were hunters using compounds. Also yes my bow is rated at 460 but goes 450 with the light mechanicals I use, which is why my scope's speedring is set at 450. Which is besides the point, I already refuted your arguement of the deer jumping the string both theoretically and practically but I'll explain again to entertain you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bester
The scorpyd aculeus is the third quietest crossbow on the market, coupled with the distance the sound is so minimal to the deer that they pay no attention. An example I have mentioned is when I shot a 140lb doe *behind* me at the same spot at 40 yards. Meanwhile there were 3 does *infront* of me across the river (same place the buck was) and I managed to shoot, and load another arrow with ZERO reaction from the other deer. Which is why the deer didn't jump the string in this situation. Also no, I haven't been hunting for "over a year", stop saying that nonsense to attempt to refute my stance on the situation, I said that I shot my first whitetail last year. I took my hunters course 8.5 years ago and did primarily blackbear hunting before that.
And while we speak about ethics and people needing "lots to learn". Based on your past posts it appears you bait deer with carrots, now it's legal from what I know but it's a huge risk for spreading CWD and other diseases between deer (infact it's the main vessel of infection). Infact the MNR put out a notice warning hunters against baiting deer due to spreading CWD, which you either didn't know about (which I doubt) or you simply ignored it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bester
Although I have sided with you through most of this conversation to a certain point this comment proves you have lots to learn about the animals you hunt. Saying bait piles spread CWD as a main vessel of infection is rubbish. If a disease is transferred through saliva a plain old branch will infect far more deer. By branch I speak of a licking branch, all deer in the area utilize these branches to let the others know they are there and all the deer use the same branches.Quote:
Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic
I do not always agree with others way of hunting but do my best not to berate them for it. I do my best to have an understanding of the way they do things within reason but to talk down to someone who hunts in an ethical fashion causes a total loss of any respect. Consider a bait pile at 20 yards vs your deer at 70, who do you think is going to make the perfect shot more often?
Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
If you think a crossbow (or any bow for that matter) is quiet enough that deer don't hear it - well - I just don't know what to say other than you have a lot to learn. Whether or not they react - well this a different thing. But because they didn't in this instance doesn't mean they won't on the next. BTW - what is the terminal velocity @70 of the 450 fps bolt - just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by MihajloSimsic
Been following this in the states quite a bit. The worry is that hard/larger bait - appples or carrots which the deer pick up, slobber on then bite a piece out of and then drop are the feared transfer. Your argument that a licking branch poses the same problem is valid except that the frequency of deer licking the same branch would be pretty low.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
But any worry about CWD in Ontario - which if I am up to date on this - where it has not been encountered isn't very practical. And because of our low deer densities (relative to those areas in the US where it is a problem) make it unlikely to spread here. The largest contributing factor to the spread of CWD is deer density, not baiting.
Bingo! Why bow hunt if you need to take shots that far out??? Just use a firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by bester
Here's a comparison of bolt flight times compared to speed of sound for various speeds/distances.
The numbers show are the time (seconds) between the sound arriving and the bolt arriving at the deer.
A 450fps bolt at 70 yards arrives 0.317 sec after the sound - which compares with a 300 fps bolt at 50 yards - which is not very good - and wouldn't be considered a reasonable odds shot by most hunters.
Both require quite a bit of luck to avoid the deer jumping the string. A deer's reaction time is about 0.12 sec.
Sound Sp Arrow Sp Dt@20 Dt@30 Dt@40 Dt@50 Dt@60 Dt@70
Avg Spd % 0.95 0.925 0.9 0.875 0.85 0.8
1125 250 0.189 0.286 0.384 0.483 0.584 0.691
1125 275 0.168 0.253 0.340 0.429 0.519 0.614
1125 300 0.149 0.226 0.304 0.383 0.464 0.551
1125 325 0.134 0.203 0.273 0.345 0.418 0.497
1125 350 0.121 0.183 0.247 0.312 0.378 0.451
1125 375 0.109 0.166 0.224 0.283 0.344 0.411
1125 400 0.099 0.151 0.204 0.258 0.314 0.376
1125 425 0.091 0.138 0.186 0.236 0.288 0.345
1125 450 0.083 0.126 0.171 0.217 0.264 0.317
There are other (more troublesome) issues at 70 yards - range estimation and trajectory probably highest on the list.
Wind would also need to be considered.
I got nothing against OP and think you are on your way to becoming a great hunter, congrats on your successful deer hunts. Now on the subject of taking shots at deer with high speed xbows at 70yrds, yes it can be done as you have seen first hand. But that doesn't change the fact that its a risky shot and could lead to a wounded animal. As ethical hunters we need to always try and make the best shots possible to reduce the risk of wounding are game. With archery equipment that usually means taking closer unobstructed shots to ensure a clean kill and easy recovery. Now its up to you as the hunter to decide if you want to continue with 70yrd shots on deer. But you will have to ask yourself if you can handle the risk of wounding a deer that you wont be able to recover that ends up having a slow painful death.
One issue not mentioned is the fact that deer will not likely “jump the string” at longer ranges. Out to 15 to 20 yds, deer tend to react instantly when hearing a noise close by. Jumping the string, is a misnomer. They do not jump the string. Their normal reaction is to duck, loading up energy in their legs, preparing for the leap. Try jumping from a straight leg position....Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Next time you see a relaxed deer at 100 yds, bark at it and see the reaction. It will look around, usually right at the location the sound came from. They need to identify that noise as a threat, before they bolt. At .0137 seconds, the bolt is through it before a threat is realized.
I don’t advocate shooting at these ranges, but I recognize some have the skill sets and equipment to allow good shots. I, however do not. I’ll stick to 30yds and closer...as far as making a bad shot at 70 yds, I know of lots of guys that have made bad shots at 20 yds....