She wants your savings

Actually Jben I grew up in the Maritimes and every single family I knew had 2 incomes. Usually the husband was the primary and the wife usually had a part time job at the minimum. My own mother raised us while running small business outside from the house and when all of us kid's grew up she sometimes managed some stores then went back to running daycare's. In fact even my grand parents time both parents worked.

So I am not familiar with this period of there being a sole bread winner this must be an Ontario thing only as it never happened in the Maritimes at least not since the early 1900's.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Actually Jben I grew up in the Maritimes and every single family I knew had 2 incomes. Usually the husband was the primary and the wife usually had a part time job at the minimum. My own mother raised us while running small business outside from the house and when all of us kid's grew up she sometimes managed some stores then went back to running daycare's. In fact even my grand parents time both parents worked.

So I am not familiar with this period of there being a sole bread winner this must be an Ontario thing only as it never happened in the Maritimes at least not since the early 1900's.

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Both my wife and I parents single Income and well as both our grandparents. . Some of the grandmother worked young during the war. .

Not hard to find but many jobs have stayed in the same range since the 90s. but every thing else has skyrocketed.

Might have gone up a little but not much . Government increased and minimum has gone up some in the middle have not really moved.

Father in-law was getting mid 20s an hr in the 90s trucking long hours . Many won't start of that high 18 20 still some more but many not much. . He left because they wanted to cut his pay he told them to f off lol. A house was only 50 k then in the GTA area. My dad was making about 60 thousand a year then when houses were cheap again in Keswick 50 k for the house.
I know some now that make 50 to 125 an hr but Many others are not making much more then back then.
Still today many in the mid 20 an hour range but a house is a million now.

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I would love to know how Banks can, with the average family income of only $80k a year, qualify people for $500k+ properties. That's insane.

Back in the 90s when our family income was about $80K (above average back then) the BOM would only per-arrange us a mortgage for $120K..... and required a huge down payment to avoid the high CMHC insurance rate.

What changed...why are the 'average' wage earners allowed to mortgage such huge debt ??? Who is buying up these $500k+ homes in the urban sprawl ??

Why are people being allowed to put themselves in that position ? The mortgage stress test is suppose to stop them from doing stupid things like that.

People are hurting...a lot of that is self inflicted.

I can still remember when 'DINKs' was a new thing....Duel Income No Kids. They drove consumerism to lofty heights, that's what started the housing boom and pretty soon you couldn't even qualify for a mortgage unless you were a family with dual income.

Gone were the 'Leave it to Beaver' families with a working Dad and stay at home Moms.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I would love to know how Banks can, with the average family income of only $80k a year, qualify people for $500k+ properties. That's insane.

Back in the 90s when our family income was about $80K (above average back then) the BOM would only per-arrange us a mortgage for $120K..... and required a huge down payment to avoid the high CMHC insurance rate.

What changed...why are the 'average' wage earners allowed to mortgage such huge debt ??? Who is buying up these $500k+ homes in the urban sprawl ??

Why are people being allowed to put themselves in that position ? The mortgage stress test is suppose to stop them from doing stupid things like that.

People are hurting...a lot of that is self inflicted.

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Because that's what many make, the housing market has gone up 10 time's almost in the last 20 years.

What have the wages gone up to by the middle class ? Just a few bucks more then the 90s .

If wages jumped as high as the housing has we would all be making a quarter million a a year or more . But many of them are the same.

In the last 20 years

Houses 100 thousand for average home today 800 thousand

Milk fairly stable only gone up a little buck

Gas 50 cent to a Buck25

Meat has doubled

Cars have more than doubled

Much of the pay has stayed the same tho.

I know some places paid 30 thousand now worth over a million. They still made 40 thousand a year when they bought the place.
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I grew up in the beaches. The house my parents bought cost them 16,000. When I was 10 or my dad was making 27,000 as a firefighter. Mom took a job as a secretary somewhere around 1970. Most of the families on out street were single income.

Mike.
Re debt and consumerism. What would our lives be like it today if not for it? Hard to say, but one thing is certain is that it’s fueled our economy for decades. No spending, no economic growth.

As stated I’m in that world now. I get people financing. By far, by very far most of the people I work with are sub prime. Meaning their credit score and resume are under 750. I’d also guess 80% of the people I work with have gross ( b4 taxes) incomes between $2,000 and $4,500 a month. Right around the mean.

How many of “you” know what your credit scores are.

I honestly have no real idea what next. We need to create jobs yes. Good paying ones. We need to raise incomes. Can’t really force companies to pay more. Aren’t we already spending billions to bail too many out?

Where?
People go where the jobs are. Look at housing in the GTA. It’s not rocket science. So we need to diversify.

Taxation.
We need to give a ton of people more disposable income. Cutting taxes is like a basic income. It does much the same.

We are now in debt beyond our eyeballs. Our governments need revenue.So...........

We also need thousands of
PSWs, RNs, dieticians, inspectors, Therapist. Drs and GPs for the 800,000 people without. I’m sure all of us here would love to see a few thousand more COs and biologist.

Long winded way of saying/suggesting we are “top heavy”. Across the board. To illustrate that look at PS. Why can’t we afford more of “everything”. Well quite obviously because too many make too much.

20%
Vs
80% the have nots.

In Germany, and Scandinavian countries people are funnelled or work in fields where they are naturally inclined to. Here,,people try to go where the $ is.

housing here didn’t really start to get insane until 2012. Just a few short years after 2008.

J Ben

I found some old news papers in the walls of a house .

Downtown House's Toronto was listed for 18 thousand lol. Crazy how much it has gone up.

The bidding wars on homes are not helping its just keeping the market going up . Some have the ability to afford it where many other's do not. My fil paid his house off in 12 years he doesn't like paying extra he keeps his money lol.



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Well on “that”.
I bought a nice house in Whitby in 2011. I offered $335,000 ( they were asking 340,000). No one else was bidding on it. The next year there would have been line ups and today that same place would likely go for 800-900.

So why in the space of say 2 years was there sooooooooo much demand...
/points to 2008 and jobs going “poof”



Today,
Rentals are just as insane. My daughter just took a 1 room. $600/month.

Places in outlying regions are utterly stupid. PTBO, St Catharines, London, Lyndsay. Where the local economy is vastly different. The mean duo in PTBO is $60,000. So people that have grown up in those areas. Have incomes in the 30,000 range. Are screwed. Being pushed out.....Basement rentals in PTBO are now going for $1,500.

How many jobs In PTBO, Lyndsay, St Catharines pay $60,000 year? Just the OPP and Hospitals, that’s how many.

It’s Fd, very fd.

I’m going to link an article shortly. But first I need to try and get a single mom that makes the mean ( 44,000) and whose credit isn’t great. A loan, so she can buy a car, so she can get to from/work.

one reason I linked the stats from the 90s was to show how incomes are going down/staying the same. Every time there’s an economic downturn, incomes for the masses go down. Permanently.

Lots of people lose jobs. The vast majority eventually find work. But it’s work that pays less ( bills to pay, mouths to feed)....

/looks at 2020

Everything is relative to demand. My son went to Columbia University in NY city, on a 'fellowship' for one semester. He paid 2400.00 U S dollars a month for a 700 sq. foot, 'bachelor apartment'....... $24,000.00 U.S. dollars for 10 months rent. Everything but the toilet ,in one room. Even then, that was hard to find. People will charge what the market will bear.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Well on “that”.
I bought a nice house in Whitby in 2011. I offered $335,000 ( they were asking 340,000). No one else was bidding on it. The next year there would have been line ups and today that same place would likely go for 800-900.

So why in the space of say 2 years was there sooooooooo much demand...
/points to 2008 and jobs going “poof”



Today,
Rentals are just as insane. My daughter just took a 1 room. $600/month.

Places in outlying regions are utterly stupid. PTBO, St Catharines, London, Lyndsay. Where the local economy is vastly different. The mean duo in PTBO is $60,000. So people that have grown up in those areas. Have incomes in the 30,000 range. Are screwed. Being pushed out.....Basement rentals in PTBO are now going for $1,500.

How many jobs In PTBO, Lyndsay, St Catharines pay $60,000 year? Just the OPP and Hospitals, that’s how many.

It’s Fd, very fd.

I’m going to link an article shortly. But first I need to try and get a single mom that makes the mean ( 44,000) and whose credit isn’t great. A loan, so she can buy a car, so she can get to from/work.

one reason I linked the stats from the 90s was to show how incomes are going down/staying the same. Every time there’s an economic downturn, incomes for the masses go down. Permanently.

Lots of people lose jobs. The vast majority eventually find work. But it’s work that pays less ( bills to pay, mouths to feed)....

/looks at 2020

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Hey JBen - good to see you back!!!