Obscene amounts of money

right thread :)

Interesting fact on fear and greed.

People react 4x stronger to losses than they do gains. In simple terms. A person finds $100 on the street. Hey cool.

A person loses $100 out of their wallet. They are right pissed off and day ruined.

So yep, when people complain about corporate greed. It’s really themselves, shareholders. And people hate, hate not getting those returns or god forbid, an off year and dividends being reduced/cancelled.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

OK W you are relying entirely on your investments to fund your retirement, I am already retired and could join you in funding your retirement by say investing in a mutual fund you are also in.

But guess what I am to afraid of the market to even think of investing.

So are thousands of Canadians who have money sitting in saving accounts and 1% GIC,s'

The money is there because they were burned by the 2009 collapse and they can NO LONGER AFFORD TO LOSE ANYMORE.

What would be your advice to all the pensioners frozen out of fear to keep money in savings accounts only.

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Look at market based GICs. They are essentially mutual funds but your principal is guaranteed. You get market return less a management fee, but your gain is capped - maybe at 15% over 3 years or something like that. It varies. The bank is gambling that over the long term the market will recover and they will make enough on the difference between the cap and the actual return to cover any losses. They've been around for 15-20 years. Much better than 1% interest.

BTW - I'm not in in mutual funds - they worked in the 1980's when financial information was very restricted. Now everyone has the same financial information for all companies. No secrets. "Active Management" is just a manager placing bets on winners and losers. I think the last numbers I saw was that in any given year after management fees are deducted, only 7% of accounts beat the index for their holdings. I don't pick individual stocks either. All ETFs (exchange traded funds) or stock based GICs. ETFs are stock based funds with the associated risks.

Re: 2008 - the only people that lost money in 2008 were those that irrational pulled their cash out of a down market. That's as irrational as buying into an up market - like it is now. I wouldn't be buying stock based investments now without a principal guarantee.

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Originally Posted by JBen

right thread :)

Interesting fact on fear and greed.

People react 4x stronger to losses than they do gains. In simple terms. A person finds $100 on the street. Hey cool.

A person loses $100 out of their wallet. They are right pissed off and day ruined.

So yep, when people complain about corporate greed. It’s really themselves, shareholders. And people hate, hate not getting those returns or god forbid, an off year and dividends being reduced/cancelled.

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Well as a member of OMERS I guess I am a share holder but had no choice in the matter and I have no choice in where they invest.

I have already been advised that they lost money last year even although they are pretty conservative in investing.

Now I will not lose any of my pension by I will lose on my voluntary contributions but either way I do not get a say on how or where they invest.

I accept that the actuaries are human and made calculations 30 years ago that no longer apply because of added lfe expectancy, what is the solution for that.... reduce the pension........ put people out of work......then I might qualify for GIS?

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well as a member of OMERS I guess I am a share holder but had no choice in the matter and I have no choice in where they invest.

I have already been advised that they lost money last year even although they are pretty conservative in investing.

Now I will not lose any of my pension by I will lose on my voluntary contributions but either way I do not get a say on how or where they invest.

I accept that the actuaries are human and made calculations 30 years ago that no longer apply because of added lfe expectancy, what is the solution for that.... reduce the pension........ put people out of work......then I might qualify for GIS?

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Pretty hard to lose money in the stock market last year.... Unless you dumped everything on March 22. But I would doubt OMERS did that.
I'd guess OMERS owns a lot of commercial real estate, and I think that took a bad hit.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Look at market based GICs. They are essentially mutual funds but your principal is guaranteed. You get market return less a management fee, but your gain is capped - maybe at 15% over 3 years or something like that. It varies. The bank is gambling that over the long term the market will recover and they will make enough on the difference between the cap and the actual return to cover any losses. They've been around for 15-20 years. Much better than 1% interest.

BTW - I'm not in in mutual funds - they worked in the 1980's when financial information was very restricted. Now everyone has the same financial information for all companies. No secrets. "Active Management" is just a manager placing bets on winners and losers. I think the last numbers I saw was that in any given year after management fees are deducted, only 7% of accounts beat the index for their holdings. I don't pick individual stocks either. All ETFs (exchange traded funds) or stock based GICs. ETFs are stock based funds with the associated risks.

Re: 2008 - the only people that lost money in 2008 were those that irrational pulled their cash out of a down market. That's as irrational as buying into an up market - like it is now. I wouldn't be buying stock based investments now without a principal guarantee.

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Thanks for the input W so even after a mutual fund fee is paid you are still ok with market based GIC's.

I did a segregated fund years ago for 10 years, it was supposed to double, it did not but at least I did not lose. Is this the same type of product.

All good points. Rational discourse. I am in the same boat as Gil. Thanks for for that.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Pretty hard to lose money in the stock market last year.... Unless you dumped everything on March 22. But I would doubt OMERS did that.
I'd guess OMERS owns a lot of commercial real estate, and I think that took a bad hit.

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Yeh they already told me that they will have negative return's, you got to remember they own places like Square One, part of 407, The Port of Melbourne,...all dependent on the economy rolling along.

I know back in 2009 they lost a full 25% of their worth at 15billion dollar haircut from the 60 billion.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Thanks for the input W so even after a mutual fund fee is paid you are still ok with market based GIC's.

I did a segregated fund years ago for 10 years, it was supposed to double, it did not but at least I did not lose. Is this the same type of product.

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Just had a look at scotia banks stock based GICs. The returns on them now are horrible. Capped at 4.5% over 3 years. (1.5%).

TD has one that's 18.88% over 3 years (maximum)Earn up to 18.88% with a 3-year TD Canadian Banking & Utilities GIC*

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Just had a look at scotia banks stock based GICs. The returns on them now are horrible. Capped at 4.5% over 3 years. (1.5%).

TD has one that's 18.88% over 3 years (maximum)Earn up to 18.88% with a 3-year TD Canadian Banking & Utilities GIC*

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W I had a quick look on the net not to sure what to believe, maybe JBEN can comment.

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/td-c...s-gic-2171292/

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

W I had a quick look on the net not to sure what to believe, maybe JBEN can comment.

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/td-c...s-gic-2171292/

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Looks like 2 complaints there a) people thinking it is 18.88 per year, not over the 3 year term - and I had clearly stated it was over 3 years, and b) people putting no value on the guaranteed principal. If you don't care about the guaranteed principal, then it's not a good investment. But we were talking about people being afraid, unable to lose an more... So the first thing you need to do before asking for investment advice is ask your self, are you willing to accept risk to your principal.