A Tundra Swan Season In Ontario

I'm all for it. Would love to get a tag and possibly take one of the hundreds that fly over head in the fall.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

But you ignore my point about even with hunters mis-identifying species we hunt now, we still hunt those species. If mis-identification is a valid reason not to have a hunt of a huntable species, then all hunting can be stopped.

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If you could come up with some way to teach some of these guys that call themselves hunters /water fowlers how NOT TO Mis-Identify whatever they are hunting , then I would support it .

But there are too many out there that are just gung ho and want to kill something and wind up shooting a species that they can not identify.
I have taken guys out duck hunting and they see some flying and say get ready we'll take them , I just say go ahead count me out as they are mergansers .
How many times have we all seen posts here where tundra swans are said to be snow geese, there is a vast difference in size alone regardless of the fact that snow geese also being a lot smaller have black wing tips which are readily seen with the naked eye, plus they have pink feet and bills .
Guys that cannot identify a black duck amongst hen mallards are just shooting to early in the mourning.

Here is a dandy , while hunting ducks' some blue herons were flying by and some guys started calling while shouting geese, geese they continued to use their goose calls and when the herons got within range , three of them they were shot.
Needless to say this was reported to the C.O. who was checking the hunters as they all came out of the marsh.

I also do not understand how a "hunter can shoot an elk and say he thought it was a deer .

As far as bear hunting is concerned , you can't mistake it for anything else , and as for bringing the bear hunt back , I am fine with it as we have had a bear hunt for many, many years and they can be a nuisance and dangerous so bringing some thing back that was unjustly taken away, is great.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

But you ignore my point about even with hunters mis-identifying species we hunt now, we still hunt those species. If mis-identification is a valid reason not to have a hunt of a huntable species, then all hunting can be stopped.

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Your elk hunt comment struck home and made me think . It's a pretty good point to compare - eg. newly reintroduced species being opened to hunting, population status about the same, and some ID problems to boot. Not much different from the swan scenario, and things seemed to turn out OK. If I look at the elk scenario, the MNR handled it by only allowing key areas (township subdivisions in some cases) where known concentrations of elk occurred. Are there key areas for fall Tundras, where high concentrations of Trumpeters do not occur? I just know that in my area (Kawartha Lakes), both species are present at the same time, and I'm sure there would be Trumpeters shot. As I said previously, I only know of three "local" breeding pairs of Trumpeters. The loss of even one of these birds would be a sad day for a pile of people. These birds make the local papers every year, and are almost regarded as celebrities to many of the local folk. We have birders coming from afar to watch and photograph them. As a hunter, I have concerns of what the public perception will be if any of these birds are shot during a hunt. These Trumpeters are not seen by the locals as "sky carp" (giant resident Canadas) that crap on the cottager's bowling green lawn, or have all our beaches shut down for half the summer. It's a big deal for people to see them.

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Originally Posted by Buddy Boy

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Dead Ringer ... since a Tundra Swan season would be a limited (tag only) harvest by selected waterfowl hunters the "species identification course" that I had suggested would only be required for the Tundra Swan hunters ... I thought that was obvious but "thank you" for clarifying that to others. I also agree with you that the identification between a Trumpeter Swan and a Tundra Swan is harder than between a Black Duck and a Hen Mallard in early (limited) light ... that was just an example with new (and not so new) waterfowl hunters.

Note: For those "waterfowlers" who are interested you can print off an identification brochure from The Trumpeter Swan Society web site ... Trumpeter Swan vs Mute Swan vs Tundra Swan vs Snow Goose. I do however believe that all "waterfowlers" should get to know the basic differences between these species.

2) Fenelon ... I do share your concern as it is valid and I have also thought of the scenario that you have described ... the hunter will not be charged for the incidental harvest of that Trumpeter Swan since the bird is technically a "legal" bird but he does bring the Tundra Swan season one bird closer to a "closure" once that five bird limit is reached in that particular state.

Note: I understand (in spite of the unregulated native "subsistence harvest" in Canada and the United States as well as this incidental harvest) that both the Rocky Mountain TRSW Population and the Interior TRSW Population have doubled recently (from 5,000 to 10,000 each) while the Pacific Coast TRSW Population has only made a small gain (from 25,000 to 26,000). I have been advised by The Trumpeter Swan Society that wintering habitat is now limiting the growth of the Pacific Coast TRSW Population. I think that it is just a matter of time before we see a small limited Trumpeter Swan season on the west coast (since few Tundra Swans use that route) to manage that specific TRSW population and the effect on their wintering habitat.

As for your comments regarding the Snow Goose season ... those "idiots" would probably not pass the "species identification course" that I have suggested and consequently would not be eligible for a Tundra Swan tag ... issue solved. Furthermore is there a reason why your comments about "regulations and enforcement officers" regarding the second Black Duck scenario could not or would not apply to a Tundra Swan season?

3) Drake Mallard 12 ... I am glad that you agree ... so are you interested in a Tundra Swan season?

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome

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Ya i definitely am, i love hunting all forms of fowl, if numbers can be sustained im all for hunting them!!!!! Im also all for hunting sandhill cranes in certain parts of ontario. Every year when i hunt the liskeard area we often see flocks of hundreds especially near the hiliardton D.U marsh

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Originally Posted by drakemallard12

Every year when i hunt the liskeard area we often see flocks of hundreds especially near the hiliardton D.U marsh

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See ya on the marsh! :)

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Originally Posted by jaycee

If you could come up with some way to teach some of these guys that call themselves hunters /water fowlers how NOT TO Mis-Identify whatever they are hunting , then I would support it .

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Problem is, too many people oppose additional regulation. Consider the many people who were upset about the Boat Operator Card requirement. "I've been a boater for 20 years, I don't need no stinking card to prove it".

Meanwhile, many of those "20 year" boaters I've met are some of the most clueless when it comes to piloting, navigation and safety.

Replace the above statement with hunter and you see the issue.

There's already a hunter's ed course requirement and a turkey course. Many people aren't going to be happy if a waterfowl ID segment is added. "I have to take a duck course now?! Next thing you're going to tell me there's a fish ID course before I can go fishing!"

Otherwise, this would help:

http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/fishing-a...ification-test

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Originally Posted by jaycee

If you could come up with some way to teach some of these guys that call themselves hunters /water fowlers how NOT TO Mis-Identify whatever they are hunting , then I would support it .

But there are too many out there that are just gung ho and want to kill something and wind up shooting a species that they can not identify.
I have taken guys out duck hunting and they see some flying and say get ready we'll take them , I just say go ahead count me out as they are mergansers .
How many times have we all seen posts here where tundra swans are said to be snow geese, there is a vast difference in size alone regardless of the fact that snow geese also being a lot smaller have black wing tips which are readily seen with the naked eye, plus they have pink feet and bills .
Guys that cannot identify a black duck amongst hen mallards are just shooting to early in the mourning.

Here is a dandy , while hunting ducks' some blue herons were flying by and some guys started calling while shouting geese, geese they continued to use their goose calls and when the herons got within range , three of them they were shot.
Needless to say this was reported to the C.O. who was checking the hunters as they all came out of the marsh.

I also do not understand how a "hunter can shoot an elk and say he thought it was a deer .

As far as bear hunting is concerned , you can't mistake it for anything else , and as for bringing the bear hunt back , I am fine with it as we have had a bear hunt for many, many years and they can be a nuisance and dangerous so bringing some thing back that was unjustly taken away, is great.

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jaycee,

If I could come up with some way to teach everyone not to do the wrong thing, I think I would be a millioinaire many times over. :joker:

Guys who gravely mis-identify species shouldn't be hunting. I think we all agree to that. And I also understand how difficult identifying tundras from trumpters. This will more than likely be the reason I will not hunt swans. I don't want to shoot the wrong animal.

Your examples are compelling. Yes there are guys out there who mis-identify duck species but we don't punish every waterfowler by not allowing waterfowl to be hunted because these guys can't tell one type of duck from another do we? Should it not be the same for swans? We aren't arguing a population issue here, we aren't arguing a season length either. We are arguing about whether to have a season based on a hunter's ability to judge whether it is the correct animal to shoot or not. Huntable species seasons aren't based on that or if they are they sure shouldn't be.

I only used the bear hunt example to show all hunters should support each other when it comes to opening up new (or reinstating) hunting opportunities. I could have easily used the example of the RCMP re-classifing a firearm or the post about the person who was trying to get handguns to be allowed to be used for hunting.

Dyth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dead Ringer

Problem is, too many people oppose additional regulation. Consider the many people who were upset about the Boat Operator Card requirement. "I've been a boater for 20 years, I don't need no stinking card to prove it".

Meanwhile, many of those "20 year" boaters I've met are some of the most clueless when it comes to piloting, navigation and safety.

Replace the above statement with hunter and you see the issue.

There's already a hunter's ed course requirement and a turkey course. Many people aren't going to be happy if a waterfowl ID segment is added. "I have to take a duck course now?! Next thing you're going to tell me there's a fish ID course before I can go fishing!"

Otherwise, this would help:

http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/fishing-a...ification-test

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But as with the turkey course (and was stated eariler), you could make the course mandatory if you wanted to get a swan tag.

Dyrth, why draw the line there? Why not make it required for all waterfowl hunters?

Keep in mind I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Duck Slayer ... the CWS Tundra Swan Season Assessment took the Trumpeter Swan issue into consideration and apparently the CWS is not worried about a potential incidental harvest of Trumpeter Swans since that part of the Interior Population of Trumpeter Swans had a 135% increase in the last five (5) years. Thank you for your continued support.

2) Sinker ... you are exactly right and the Tundra Swan hunters would probably be a select group.

3) Dyth Bringer ... well I took the Utah "Swan Hunter Course" yesterday afternoon and I passed (100%) on the first attempt. It is a basic identification course but it is reasonable.

Note: Supporting your argument is the fact that when (not if) the Mute Swan is removed from the List of Protected Species you will not be required to take any identification course to shoot (not "harvest" as this is not a game bird) a Mute Swan in Canada. Although I have previously suggested this to Mr. J. Hughes (Head of Population Management, CWS) Dr. S. Petrie (Executive Director, LPW) told me (e-mail on file) that it will be up to the individual to be able to correctly identify a Mute Swan before shooting it ... just like a crow hunter cannot just shoot any bird that is black in colour.

4) Jobber Shunting ... please read the above note to Dyth Bringer. Furthermore swan hunting will not be for "most people" who cannot distinguish between the three swan species.

5) Sherlockbonez ... so I take it that you support this proposal ... thank you.

6) Great White ... I agree with you and I have previously stated that I was told to expect more resistence from fellow hunters than from the non-hunting public. Thank you for your continued support.

7) Dyth Bringer ... I also noticed that Jobber Shunting missed your point altogether.

8) Mox 72 ... I thank you for your support.

9) Coco Zoo ... I thank you for your support.

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome