Flat-coat Retriever ???

quote TRkhunter21

Really because you said this earlier
" It's all in the training. Be assured that an lab is just as eager to get at that bird , but proper training makes all the difference."

Then you say this " - A good friend of mine who is a pro trainer had a fantastic Brittany who ranged out 600 yards ++ and won many a trial. It doesn't matter how far they range out as long as they hold the bird until you get there.( The birds are OUT there.)
He 's also very capable at training someone's Brittany to stay within 50 yards if that's what the hunter wants. It's all in the training"
"If one is going to have a bird dog hunting at 30 yards, they might as well save their money
and kick the bird up themselvesor get a spaniel."... just kidding Cass

So obviously they can be trained to work close and to remain still if given the proper training.


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I didn't say impossible , I said hard to train for.

I hear you . A big running dog is absolutely NOT out of control.

In the video , that dog knows exactly where his handler is and will hold that bird for the handler no matter how long it takes him to get there ; the dog will relocate if necessary too.( I know you know this , but some may not.)


Absolutely- a big running dog can be trained to work closely, but it is heck of a big job! and imo not very vey fair to the big running dog whose every gene tells him to get out there.
Why would the OP put himself through that when he can get a pointing breed from a close working line?

Just grabbed a quick video. THis dog could? be trained to hunt close but one had better have a LOT of experience and patience .( Very few as capable in shortening up a dog as the pro I mentioned.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WGi...JhKij8yqdoZR3g

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quote tryhntr21:

Just trying to explain to people that just because you buy a dog from a "trial " line doesn't necessarily mean a wild run off out of control dog.
So far from what I have seen is its nicer to have a dog with drive and heart that you get to buy in and train properly, than a dog that just don't have the stuff and trying to add it later.


Buying from a non field trail pedigree does not mean the dog won't have the "stuff - drive, heart. I've seen many a dog do well at field TESTS that would make a great hunting dog, but not be successful in a trial - another subject. :)

So these close working dogs that you can train to run big are their genes telling them that its wrong to be out so far?
Or is it that they do what they are trained to do and aren't mulling over their genetic crisis of whether they are a close working or far ranging dog?

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Contact my good friend at DueNorth kennels and have that discussion. Let me know how it works out for you. :)

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This is their history Vince. Your friends concentrates on obedience work which is something they are very good at.

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Originally Posted by trkyhntr21

So these close working dogs that you can train to run big are their genes telling them that its wrong to be out so far?
Or is it that they do what they are trained to do and aren't mulling over their genetic crisis of whether they are a close working or far ranging dog?

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LOL Very good. I know you believe that it is in the breeding whether or not a dog will run big or stay close.... all other things being equal. Right?

I never said your quote : "close working dogs that you can train to run big". In my experience that is another challenge one shouldn't take on unless there's an exceptional reason. I had a bootlicker once because someone had abused the dog with the e collar before I got it. Dog was afraid to range out . As it developed confidence that ranging out was safe its genes kicked in and it was another dog.

The bottom line for the Op is : get the dog that fits your wants rather than a dog you have to work on hard to change.

PS These are more replies than I ever post - too much coffee . :) Enjoyed the discussion.... bowing out so others can contribute.

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To further complicate the issue , a close working pointing dog can be encouraged to work out farther by planting birds out farther , but unlikely he/she will become a 600 + yard ranging dog.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

This is their history Vince. Your friends concentrates on obedience work which is something they are very good at.

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I know Sharon but it would be very interesting for Cass to hear it straight from a flatcoat breeder trainer and not out of a book. She has done wonders with this intelligent breed. :)

Depends what book you read. :)

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Originally Posted by Cass

Flat coats are not popular because in general they are not on the same level as the other retriever breeds. Even in the UK where flat coats are more popular they are miles behind other gun dog breeds. They were bred solely for show for a very long time... takes a long time to breed that out.... easier to breed brains out of a dog than into one.

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What book did you read ? :)

Wow, this thread has over 1,200 views and 50+ posts. I truly appreciate all the advice that so many of you have taken the time to share. Now it seems that sarcasm is starting to creep in .... that is too bad because for so long all the input was helpful and contributed positively to the question at hand. I have learned a great deal, and now realize just how naive I was. I am wiser and now ready to move on and begin a more focused study of the breed that will be right for me, and I thank you all for helping me. I hope that no hard feelings have arisen from this discussion.

Its good sarcasm. :) I think you have enough information to go on and make your decision.

I haven't read any book on the flat coat, ( did some googling reading), but maybe Cass has read a great book!:) Any pheasant found Saturday? Did you go where I suggested?