My first bow should be...

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The fact that a product is being tested in a controlled setting is exactly the reason the results of the evaluations bear more weight. Like they explain in the video, they remove the 'shooter' and just look at the bows performance.

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That's exactly why I don't put much stock in the dry lab reviews. The shooters experience should be a huge part of the evaluation. "Best" is very subjective and is different for each person. Pure data without analysis is pretty useless in my opinion and you cannot provided analysis without factoring in the human element. My "best" is based on accuracy, reliability, weight, serviceability and handling. I really don't care a whole lot about size or noise or vibration because none of that will have any adverse effect on my hunting or target shooting. The weight alone of some of the bows they reviewed would preclude me from ever buying one so there's no way I would consider any of them a "best". Had a high end TenPoint at one point and while it was a sweet shooting bow it got nick-named the "TenPound" because that's about what it weighed. Maybe if I was 22 not 52 I wouldn't mind hauling it around but that was the biggest reason for selling it. I could see several ways to reduce the weight of that model but I guess the TenPoint engineers couldn't or they didn't care.

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Looking at 3D competitions is meaningless to evaluate a Bow performance against one another...that competition is evaluating the skills of the Archer and has little to do with the Bow.

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Quite the contrary. It's a great way to test the real world durability of the bows. It's also a testament to the accuracy as no serious shooter would waste his or her time competing with a bow that wasn't capable of pin point accuracy.

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It might be the preferred x-bow...but then you would have to ask why ? If the competition is being done in Ontario, then most guys will show up with an Excalibur, because most guys in Ontario own an Excalibur.

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Not really. I know in the archery shops I deal with in Southern Ontario Excaliburs only account for less than a third of their crossbows sales, some less.

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If you hold it down in Texas, few guys, statistically, will show up with Excalibur. In fact, I noticed a lot of 3D competitions in the US have a specific category for 'recurves'..maybe why you'd see more Excalibur's there:)

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So do almost all 3D shoots in Ontario. Most shoots are open to all types of archery gear. You sign up for your class and compete against other in the same.

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boiler

Appreciate all the info. MikePal, you guys can hijack away! The links and so forth have been looked at for sure. Awesome reading and it has given me a good foundation to work from and ask questions. Now to find a bow shop that has some selections to choose from...
Anyone have experience with Erie Trackers in Port Colbourne? I remember last year seeing a lot of bows there.

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Good place to shop for bows Mr Boiler. Great selection, knowledgeable staff and an indoor range.

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Originally Posted by TPM

Pure data without analysis is pretty useless in my opinion and you cannot provided analysis without factoring in the human element. My "best" is based on accuracy, reliability, weight, serviceability and handling.

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What your talking about is called 'User trials' as opposed to functional engineering reviews. I agree with you on the premise...but you would have to conduct the review in accordance to set parameters to evaluate one bow against another.

ie: you would require the same group of 6-10 archers running thru a fixed 3D course with a standardized scoring scenario with a selection of different Bow from a variety of manufactures. Each shooter would have to run thru it with each selected bow (multiple times preferably) and then compare the performance results.

To say off hand that bow 'X' is the BEST because most 3D guys use it, or because YOU like it, is meaningless unless it's gone thru a rigorous performance review.

For the vast majority of hunting needs, good & consistent accuracy is not about bow brands/models, but the shooter’s skills. All modern bows are capable of good performance (when tuned properly!!!).
Also, vertical bows (vs X-bows) do require dedication to reach & maintain the level of shooting performance you are capable of, or happy with.
So, ALL that really what matters when choosing a bow these days, (beside personal preferences/obsession if any) is proper feel/fit & good customer service.

Well, finally got an opportunity to get a look at some x-bows. Salesman, an older gentleman brought up a good point. "Hopefully you aren't thinking of hunting this season if you've never shot a bow before." That gives me more time to research. I looked at the Excalibur Axiom and Carbon Express CX1. Both very different. He did mention something else interesting regarding FPS. Don't worry too much about FPS. Be more concerned about a clean and ethical kill. He felt that 25 to 35 yards would be max for a beginner. Felt that 60 yards plus is unrealistic even for those who have been bow hunting for a while. He also told me to stop watching those BS hunting clips on youtube where the guy has got a deer at 100 yards with a bow.
All in all it was a good visit. I may wait until bow season is over and see what I can get on sale...

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boiler

Well, finally got an opportunity to get a look at some x-bows. Salesman, an older gentleman brought up a good point. "Hopefully you aren't thinking of hunting this season if you've never shot a bow before." That gives me more time to research. I looked at the Excalibur Axiom and Carbon Express CX1. Both very different. He did mention something else interesting regarding FPS. Don't worry too much about FPS. Be more concerned about a clean and ethical kill. He felt that 25 to 35 yards would be max for a beginner. Felt that 60 yards plus is unrealistic even for those who have been bow hunting for a while. He also told me to stop watching those BS hunting clips on youtube where the guy has got a deer at 100 yards with a bow.
All in all it was a good visit. I may wait until bow season is over and see what I can get on sale...

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You really shouldn't have any problem with getting into the field this year with a crossbow. A compound bow... probably not, but with a bit of range time you could be ready to hunt with a crossbow by October.

I agree with his take on FPS and max range. 35 yards is a long shot regardless, beginner or not, no matter what crossbow you're shooting. 60 yards is completely unrealistic.

Keep your eye on this site for deals. Guys on here are selling good crossbows all the time when moving up to the Micro or Matrix. You could get yourself completely outfitted with a decent used Excalibur for under $600.

One piece of advice if I can offer it... buy a crossbow that isn't intimidating for you to unc o c k by hand. If you start out with something that's too heavy (over 200 lbs), you're going to hate having to unload it. I still use an older exocet (175 lbs) that's easy enough to grab the string with both hands, flip the safety off and pull the trigger with my thumb. You can definitely feel it, but it's manageable. Anything over 200 lbs and you'll have to either shoot it or use the rope co cking aid to unload it, which can be awkward and intimidating if you're new to crossbows.

He's right about the FPS, as I posted earlier, a 175 lb bow is more than plenty to push an arrow thru and thru a deer into the ground...any more than that all your doing is burying the arrow deeper into the ground on the other side :)

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boiler

I looked at the Excalibur Axiom and Carbon Express CX1. Both very different.

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I see that Archery Choice (see link below) rated the Axiom very high (9.2/10) would make a could choice if you found the fit good and the price was in budget. More than enough power to kill a deer.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

. I'll trust the winning archers every time over some magazine lab geeks funded by advertising dollars.

Extending your logic to say chainsaws would you take the advice of a few magazine lab techs over that of the majority of foresters? I know whose advice I'd follow.

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From a thread about chainsaws ???

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Originally Posted by Species8472

More importantly - what did the independent testers at outdoor life recommend? ;);)

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I see that the news that the Excalibur bows are not rated the best has really rocked your belief system Species, you even carry the bitterness to other threads...Haha

Here, just in case you think I was selective in my choice of 'Outdoor Life' for their Cross Bow review...here are two more independent Cross Bow reviews sites that include some Exclaibur bows...as I said earlier, they do well ,nothing wrong with the bow, they just are NOT rated the Best...

http://www.archerychoice.com/crossbo...s-comparisons/

http://www.petersenshunting.com/feat...rossbows-2014/


I'll Put the ball in your court..find me some 'User trail' reviews of how well an Excalibur proved to be the best against other crossbows.

yes, a 175lb pull crossbow is more than enough.. I shot an Excalibur phoenix for a few years ( 175lb pull) and killed 5 deer in 3 years with it.. now my dad has it and I am shooting the axiom.. the axiom took over the phoenix and now the grizzly takes over the axiom... they are great bows... not the fastest, but still very very accurate, dependable and like said earlier, absolutely enough to get a complete pass through up to 40 yards..

I'm not sure where you are Mr Boiler but the fall sale at Trombly's in Orillia starts today,

175lb Grizzly $600 with padded case....