Another Ethical Question

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

This threat started out as a question on public land, if you are on exclusive acreage the situation is known and the variable can be taken into account. I'm thinking of a situation where this is not the case, back in 2006 a 67 year-old hiker, who never made her daily trek in the Simcoe County Public Forest during hunting season because she was wary of hunters shooting at deer. She was unaware hunting season had begun. She was fatally shot by a hunter. Dressed in a red turtleneck it was initially thought she was mistaken for a deer. Later at the trial it came out, she hit by a stray shot by a hunter shooting at a deer. The thing about shooting rabbits is they are very low to the ground, so a bullet is almost immediately grounded, that can't be said of deer, and particular if the deer is in full bound.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Plenty of running deer are shot during every gun season on public land Gun Nut. The difference is that most public land is not as crowded as what you're referring to. Obviously, if you're hunting a busy tract of public land you're not going to try pushing or dogging deer because you're just going to push deer to everyone else. Any time we ran dogs on public land we were well aware of whether or not there was another hunter or group in the area and adjusted our plans accordingly.

Common sense my friend.

My experience has been if you are not pushing or dogging deer, than the situation is one where you are stocking and jumping deer, and you have made some efforts to control the variable. So this brings us back to the original question if the deer is not downed with a kill shot, and gets through the net formed by your party and is eventually taken by another hunter. Who gets to claim the deer? It's been suggested by others in the forum, and fundamentally inferred with your statement on not pushing or dogging which would push deer to some else, that when on public land, the person who eventually downs the deer with an effective kill shot is the one that claims it.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

My experience has been if you are not pushing or dogging deer, than the situation is one where you are stocking and jumping deer, and you have made some efforts to control the variable. So this brings us back to the original question if the deer is not downed with a kill shot, and gets through the net formed by your party and is eventually taken by another hunter. Who gets to claim the deer? It's been suggested by others in the forum, and fundamentally inferred with your statement on not pushing or dogging which would push deer to some else, that when on public land, the person who eventually downs the deer with an effective kill shot is the one that claims it.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Quite honestly, in the two decades that I hunted with that camp and the years I spent tagging along as a kid, the issue never came up. We were just never close enough to the other groups for it to be an issue. If it had of came up, we knew most everyone in the area well enough that we would have work it out.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

My experience has been if you are not pushing or dogging deer, than the situation is one where you are stocking and jumping deer, and you have made some efforts to control the variable. So this brings us back to the original question if the deer is not downed with a kill shot, and gets through the net formed by your party and is eventually taken by another hunter. Who gets to claim the deer? It's been suggested by others in the forum, and fundamentally inferred with your statement on not pushing or dogging which would push deer to some else, that when on public land, the person who eventually downs the deer with an effective kill shot is the one that claims it.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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A deer shot in the heart with a 180gr 30-06 (I think this is a good and vital shot) can travel a long ways, you are saying that this is not the case?

You need a dose of reality, traditional hunting in Ontario involves other people in close proximity, hence why we have hunter orange as a requirement. When you have hunters in close proximity no matter how good or bad the deer is shot this can occur and the OPs question is 100% valid.

I can only go upon my personal experience, a sample of which is below:


.243 Win.: 100 grain Jacket Bullet, MV 3,030 fps, straight through the heart at 75 yard.
Distance traveled by deer from the POI about 35 yards.


.303 British: 205 Gas Checked Cast Bullet, MV 2,000 fps, exploded lungs and blew away 1/4 of heart at 35 yards. Distance traveled by deer from POI about 75 yards


12 gauge shotgun: .680 caliber round ball, MV 1200 fps, entered chest a base of neck, at about 20 yards. Distance traveled by deer from POI about 90 yards.


And you're unable to stop a deer with a heart shot using a .30-06 with a 180 grain bullet within 100 yards? Well, maybe I’ve been just lucky, although it seems to me my brother has had some similar results using a 32 Special and a 30-30.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

175 grain Nolser in 7mm mag behind the shoulder.
160 grain Nosler in 7mm mag behind the shoulder.
160 grain Nosler in .280 Rem behind the shoulder.
Distance 40 - 60 yds
All went 3 ft--straight down.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

175 grain Nolser in 7mm mag behind the shoulder.
160 grain Nosler in 7mm mag behind the shoulder.
160 grain Nosler in .280 Rem behind the shoulder.
Distance 40 - 60 yds
All went 3 ft--straight down.

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Well sawbill, what do you suppose fox is doing wrong with that .30-06?


You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Absolutely nothing. I just happen to like velocity with a fairly heavy bullet and that works for me although I did have a moose go 30 yds on a 175 grn partition. I've been lucky by never having an animal, moose or deer go more than that.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Absolutely nothing. I just happen to like velocity with a fairly heavy bullet and that works for me although I did have a moose go 30 yds on a 175 grn partition. I've been lucky by never having an animal, moose or deer go more than that.

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So it just comes down to luck that the deer I've been shooting in the heart/lung area go down within 100 yard radius of the POI. I though it might have something to do with the range I been shooting them at. I know back in my youth I use to peck away at woodchucks with .303 British and full metal jacket bullets. What I discovered was if I decked one under a 100 yards away it didn't matter where I hit it, the impact of the bullet was explosive. However at a 100 yards and beyond it was like using a .22, I had to nail them in the head. I use to attribute the result to the higher energy of the bullets at close range. I later came across an article on bullet wobble, where it suggested that in the case of the .303 British the bullet didn't settle down and become stable until it reached 100 yards. The unstable bullet has a tendency to tip, while the stabilized bullet tends to pierce. In the case of the deer I hit with the 205 grain cast bullet, and again I'm shooting downwards from a tree platform, the bullet appeared to past through the scapula straight on, but when it reached the rib cage it blow at least an inch square hole in the rib it hit, appearing to have taken a chunk of the rib with it into the chest cavity. What can I say, I reload so I like to analysis what my bullets do. What I've discovered, using a round ball instead of a conical slug, is that round balls go in, but never seem to exit, this could be a result of me not pushing them hard or a shooting angle thing.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because I stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Down within 100 yards is a reasonable general rule for a well-hit deer. In my experience the ones that go further than 100 or so were already wound up to begin with. Already pumping adrenaline from running ahead of hounds or recently jumped/pushed by people. Sometimes they have no visible reaction whatsoever to being shot when their mind is on staying ahead of a dog.