The ‘Pie Plate’ Grouping

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skypilot

My standards are higher

---

You and me both, but that's not the point...the common schlup who dusts off the rifle and walks out behind the camp and puts 3-4 rounds into a Pie Plate on a fence post 50 yds out and says 'good to go'...is not wrong....because if he hits it, he's 'Pie Plate' accurate and it represents a kill shot.

He doesn't have to put all 3-4 round withing an inch of center (our standard) .....he merely has to hit the vitals to kill the deer.

Remember, the mission for most hunters is to kill a deer not prove how close to the center of the heart they can hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunter John

We all agree on that and I think that was the original point of the thread. 5in off the bench and I would also sell the rifle to Fox. Lol. Just funnin with ya Fox.

---

Ha ha ha, never hunted with anything that had a 5" 100 yard group but bench grouping has absolutely nothing to do with this thread at all, it has to do with the actual vitals of a deer at any range, any, not MOA, not at 100 yards, at any range if you hit the pie plate you will kill that deer.

If you can only hit that pie plate and 100 yards free hand and not at 200 yards free hand you should not in my opinion shoot at a deer free hand at 200 yards.

Another perfectly reasonable thread completely derailed for no reason.

If one has a rifle/skill that will only hit somewhere inside a pie plate @100 yds, that is evidently up to the individual.

Again, if anything, I mean anything like a limb/branch/another deer/ or the deer isn't perfectly still and in broad daylight and broadsided/etc. it is going to present an issue of hit probability. More so if the deer is running or you are shooting down at an angle from a 20 ft tree stand or uphill.

Most responsible, ethical hunters use a rest to evaluate the rifle's accuracy potential combined with there ability BEFORE they attempt to hunt or shoot a deer @ 100 yds. That is why the bench/rests were mentioned.

True a deer's vitals are the same size to infinity, however the accuracy of the gun/shooter combo and the ability to place that round on target every time is relevant.

If 5" @ 100 yds is acceptable, the Browning BAR Shortrac I sent back might have interested some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

Another perfectly reasonable thread completely derailed for no reason.

---

What has been derailed? I see two different interpretations of accuracy. Two different schools of thought. Neither one are wrong. So far it's also been a reasonable discussion.

I honestly don't think there are two sides to this story. I think we all agree, but due to the idiosyncrasies of the internet we feel like we are arguing.

If you can get a 5" grouping under the circumstances you hunt in, you can ethically pull the trigger on a deer. The vitals are bigger.

Due to several disabilities, my dad can't do much better than a 5" grouping at 100 yds with a rest and a scope. He's still a young man, but his broken spine limiting his mobility and his poor eye sight combine to limit his abilities to shoot.

My father knows his abilities. In practical situations, he shoots at a maximum of about 70 yards, and always with a rest. He knows his limits and hunts within them.

Which of us will speak out to say he is not fit to hunt? Who wants to speak up to say the man who's spine was crushed in an accident limiting his shooting ability should not be allowed to hunt deer?

My bet is we all agree that a pie plate is good enough.

My shotguns with slugs and big bore rifle while shooting free hand get the pie plate test like MikePal alluded to because they're used as short range firearms,exclusively. The mediums (.243Win,.270Win and .30-06Sprg.) get bench ranged at 1MOA@200M because they're all used for long range across swamps and ponds and Hydro right-of-ways where 150-250M shots are the norm. With 10 guys and one adult Moose tag (if we're lucky) and Bullwinkle steps between two giant balsams across Dead Man's swamp at 200M and that's the only shot I'm likely to get and I want the bullet to go between rib 3 and 4,it'll go right where I put it. With smaller cals for Coyotes across pastures,guaranteed they won't get far,either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by benjhind

I honestly don't think there are two sides to this story. I think we all agree, but due to the idiosyncrasies of the internet we feel like we are arguing.

If you can get a 5" grouping under the circumstances you hunt in, you can ethically pull the trigger on a deer. The vitals are bigger.

Due to several disabilities, my dad can't do much better than a 5" grouping at 100 yds with a rest and a scope. He's still a young man, but his broken spine limiting his mobility and his poor eye sight combine to limit his abilities to shoot.

My father knows his abilities. In practical situations, he shoots at a maximum of about 70 yards, and always with a rest. He knows his limits and hunts within them.

Which of us will speak out to say he is not fit to hunt? Who wants to speak up to say the man who's spine was crushed in an accident limiting his shooting ability should not be allowed to hunt deer?

My bet is we all agree that a pie plate is good enough.

---

I would agree and it's great that your Dad can still enjoy deer hunting after such an accident. Great post.

I don't get it???? Why in the world would anybody shoot "free hand "
when they have a sling to anchor the shot and the other arm for more support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greenhorn

I don't get it???? Why in the world would anybody shoot "free hand "
when they have a sling to anchor the shot and the other arm for more support.

---

I sure hope you have hunted before making that comment.

The carry sling is not the same setup as the sling support for shooting.

"Free hand" shooting is the norm for many shooting situations, split second shooting situations where finding and setting up on a rest is impossible as well as wrapping your arm in a sling.

It is actually very easy to kill a deer with a free hand shot, that vital area is quiet large, do the same at the same range with a groundhog or a squirrel then you start running into more issues.

Bring your rifle over top of the target, use the weight of the gun to bring the sights into the vitals and squeeze.

I have never shot at a deer with a rest, never had that opportunity, always at the wrong spot or as I am going in to or out of the stand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greenhorn

I don't get it???? Why in the world would anybody shoot "free hand "
when they have a sling to anchor the shot and the other arm for more support.

---

It happenened to me this year. I walked out of bush after I missed a buck because I hit a tree on a very difficult shot around the tree of my tree stand. Buck bounced out across field and halted after I made a noise. Thought this guy was gone for good. I had about a split second to make the shot and no time for a rest or screw with sling or anything else, just a proper form freehand.

He he dropped on the spot at 191 yards....

That is and probably will be the best shot I ever make on a deer.

Not optimal but perfectly doable.