The cod fishery was lost mostly due to an increase in electronic technology and trawl nets. Many countries other than Canada were at fault.
It doesn't matter who did it. The commercial fishery and nets are what did it, not anglers.
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The cod fishery was lost mostly due to an increase in electronic technology and trawl nets. Many countries other than Canada were at fault.
It doesn't matter who did it. The commercial fishery and nets are what did it, not anglers.
Good morning all, i did some "fishing" around and have got some interesting numbers just to show everyone where the fish are going. I am not pointing fingers at anyone just putting the numbers out there as it was mentioned earlier in the thread it is really easy to play with numbers to change the impact on your audience. My personal opinion is everyone who is taking fish out are to blame collectively, and collectively need to come to a solution. I understand the anglers limits have been reduced, the first nation until last year has also reduced their quota each year when the data showed problems and they only reached quota once since they started in 2006. There is give on both sides to this point, as they do have first right to the resource proven in court cases specific to Nipissing first nation and protected by the constitution they are voluntarily managing their fishery using the precautionary approach when they don't need to.
Anyhow both these numbers are what the OMNR used for the 2013 season and both fisheries have factored in non compliances for each fishery.
NFN estimates at 25000 kg average size walleye of .774 kg = 32 299.74 fish
ANglers Winter est 12000 kg avg size walleye of .337 kg = 35608.30 fish
Angler open water est 11000 kg avg size walleye .355 kg = 30985.91 fish
So the first nation fishery is taking out 34 294.47 less fish than the anglers but the fish are larger.
Why reg changes, well 80 % of the population is in the lower 3 or 4 age classes, fish are growing bigger faster what used to be a 4 year old is now 2 to 2.5 year old which means they are getting caught before they get to spawn, where in past years they had a chance to spawn before being caught. I spoke with a biologist about why are they bitting like crazy, his thoughts were not because of an over abundace of fish but because the population is all of the same size and are all eating the same size of bait so basically they are starving. This well respected bio is also estimating the walleye fishery to collapse by this fall, that is how bad the fishery is.
I see people refering to the cod fishery well they thought the same, we are catching fish so there must be lots. People don't take into consideration how fishing efforts have changed, sure they are catching the same amount but they are also working harder for them, going further for them more technology. Also a person who is 16 might think fishing is amazing because he hasn't seen how good the fishing was for someone who is in their 60's.
Well I hope both sides realize how bad the fishery is and do what is right for the lake and not for users becuase if there are no walleye no one wins we all lose. Hopefully they can see that, and a little bit of pain for us all now will be better than a whole lot later.
Just wanted to share some of my thoughts and information, take care all. Ice out prediction for nipissing May 9.
It's been my experience that people will utilise a resource till it's exhausted. Look how many fisheries are propped up.by large scale stocking.efforts because natural reproduction can't keep up with the amount of fish being harvested. The gentleman who said it's on both the sport and commercial harvest is right. There's lots of blame to go around.
Basically it comes down to, too many people trying to harvest a finite resource. And as our population continues to increase it will only get worse. Maybe it's time to make it a catch and release sport fishery only. At least that way it's there for future generations. The way things stand right now, it won't be there for anyone before too much longer.
I personally have a problem with "estimating" what the FN take out of the lake. Who came up with that nonsense?Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
There should be no "estimate" of anything, rather a regulated entity if any.
Can you estimate what is in your live well? Will that fly with a CO?
How do you factor in non compliance when NO RECORDS ARE KEPT?
You need to dig a bit deeper here. This is a completely unregulated commercial fishery. They answer to no one.
Please don't sell it to us as anything else.
BTW- as far as the BIO is concerned, the fish I caught were extremely healthy and fat. Every single one of them....
Pretty hard to call them starving.
Of all the fish I caught last year, 30% were slot and a small percentage were over....
This included fish of every year class. Cigars to giants.
For me it's pretty basic. Sport fishing is for fun and is an economic benefit. Netting is all about money with little consideration given to the health of the fishery. Why else would they net during the spawning period when the largest female spawners are most vulnerable? Plus their nets are supposed to be high enough off bottom (18" I think) to protect the Sturgeon population but I highly doubt that happens. Then the nets are laid out along the shorelines for the birds and other animals to clean up all the incidental catch. That is illegal as it allows the flesh of consumable fish to spoil as well as be abandoned. But we all know that there are two sets of laws here. One for the sport fishery and none for FN.
As it's an unregulated fishery I would be very hard pressed to believe any numbers that are thrown out there. I would bet those FN numbers are lowballed. Why wouldn't they? Regardless, they still show more fish by weight by taken by the commercial fishery.
I could be wrong now, but it wasn't that long ago that you could still go in to a bar etc. in the area and buy walleye fillets and even cheeks. From what I recall it was pretty common knowledge. Crosshairs would probably know as he lives there.
If it's really that bad then let's hope that there is enough political will to close the commercial fishery so they can satisfy the prime mandate which is to protect the fishery.
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
Thank you for sharing your research with us. It's nice to see an intelligent response on this forum. The MNR need to shut down Nipissing so the walleye population can replenish before it's too late.
That's an interesting thought. Would sport fishermen accept a total closure of the fishery, both sport and commercial, if it meant giving the fish a chance to recover
With all due respect, did you think to ask this "well respected" biologist how it is that "starving fish" can have an accelerated growth rate??? Every fish I catch in Lake Nipissing seems fat and healthy, regardless of species.Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshairs
Not that it matters but I also seriously question the numbers you've posted of fish harvested by anglers. I spend a lot of time on the lake, year round, and there just isn't enough of an MNR presence out there that they would have a clue as to what was being taken and I certainly haven't heard of any NFN people out there conducting surveys. So where do these numbers come from??? Is this based on some statistical nonsense? Does it take into account "catch and release" which most savy anglers practice these days?
As far as the fishing goes, this lake has the best walleye fishing I've experienced in my 40+ years of fishing. A bad day on this lake is as good or better than any other good day I've experienced on any other "drive to" walleye lake in the province. I question the data that the MNR uses to assess the fish population in the lake. I'm just not seeing it. What I am seeing is change in the habits of these fish, year to year, month to month, and week to week, in all probability based on the location and type of forage. Locations that I had amazing success on in 2011 and 2012 were barren last year yet a few hundred meters away you would find them just stacked on a slightly different piece of structure. They do move and they do school up by size. Find the baitfish, find the walleye.
My point is placing nets in the same locations every fall is a waste of time. What the MNR needs to do is conduct live trap netting in the spring to get a proper assessment of the population when the fish are in easily predictable locations. I haven't seen the FWIN data from 2013, but 2012 data suggested that there was another "bumper crop" of juvenile walleye. The MNR has repeatedly asserted that there are few spawning age fish in the lake, so where I ask are all these juvenile walleye coming from???
Thank you ice cap, as you can see by the responses no one is willing to do what is right. First nation should shut down commercial fishery and anglers should be shut down so the lake can recover. Will it happen? NO so hope you all get used to eating the other species because thats all that will be left and the cycle will continue. Humans will keep working all species down until there is nothing left and then the commercial fishers and outfitters will wonder where are the fish!!!Why wasn't something done.
Big jack how do you think anglers numbers are come up with? they are estimates for thousands of fisherman (voluntary creel, what a joke) while the first nation has 10-12 commercial fisherman in a community of 800. LOL big jack believe me records are kept, i said this years ago when this all started the first nation is preparing for a court case, they have had ex mnr training their staff for enforcement, record keeping and it was the lake nipissing biologist Richard Rowe from the omnr who left omnr to work for and create this with the first nation. They want to be challenged, and omnr don't want to go there because it will show their incompetance. But it doesnt matter what i say you are obviously in the "know". So tell me why are they moving the slot to anything over 46 cm oh great one?? As for the starving fish their FWIN data also showed the fish are long and skinny compared to previous years, but i guess in court a judge would take your word over science. LMAO any how thank you jack for bringing smiles to my day, you must be a commedian.
Smitty why would they make up numbers?? Like i said thay are voluntarily doing this and why? probably for something bigger than simple management, land claim comes to my mind the treaties agreed to share the land, lakes and waterways are not in the deal plus with omnrs mismanagment leads me to believe they really want to go to court. At least thats what my friends have said.Why would they spend $400,000 a year for that departnment and have a FULL time bio when the omnr at best have a part time, most of the time the spot is vacant.
The omnr data reveiw showes something serious has been happening since the 60's but omnr wait till now when the lake is on verge of collapse to start looking at it. Sheer neglect on their part. And during the spawn the first nation has a moratorium so there is no netting and if there is it is no different than an angler keeping over his limit every race has there bad apples. Their moratorium is patrolled by their enforcement staff along side OPP and anishnabek police services. OMNR is asked to participate but refuse.
From what i was told the first nation has even asked the omnr to train their enforcement staff as CO's and the first nation would continue to cover wages, vehicles, office space etc. They said it has been 2 years and still nothing, omnr would have 2 extra CO's on the lake for the entire year for the cost of training and uniforms. It looks like the omnr just want to cause trouble rather than work together to make something work.
Alot of this info comes from the lake nipissing summits that nipissing frist nation started in order to share their information and data with all users unlike the omnr. The past 2 years it has been a two day event open to the public held at nipissing university/canadore and from i have heard the omnr where invited to share their data with everyone and they refused the first year and spoke on water mangement the second year. You can google it, i believe alot of the presentations might still be online.