New Savage 10ML-II in the house

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Originally Posted by MikePal

And that was mine...worrying about group drift when your barrel gets hot is a 'range' issue...means nothing to a hunter..

"sabot heating and sabots" you'll have to acquaint me with that term ...:)

Jack, when do you decide when a barrel is warm, too warm or to hot Jack....is it arbitrary ?

How do you differentiate shooter fatigue in group drift from soft sabot group drift ?

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Yes Mike grammar was off!

With Shotguns and MZ at range in fall I time 5 minutes between shots. In Summer give at least 10. I am not shy about buying shotgun Sabots and will spend about $200 - 400 in ammo alone looking for the best results for every slug gun I shoot. I shoot from a rest and tune the gun in. After that it is up to shooter ability. User fatigue doesn't come into the equation.

When sabots get hot the group opens up then you get to scrub the plastic crap out of the barrel!

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Found an interesting article on the topic. Test shooting on a heated barrel and how it affects sabots....

Not quite the horror story I was expecting after all the fuss....but if your bench rest shooting it would be an issue I guess.

This was the results of rapid firing x 15 shots (1 to 1.5 minute between shots) in 94 degree heat...thru a barrel to hot to touch... POA was the thick black box at 100 yds.

read more: http://www.namlhunt.com/mltesting2.html



http://www.namlhunt.com/uploads/2/9/...61619_orig.jpg

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That is about a 5 inch group. Not great.

Point of tuning in the gun to tightest group possible is if you need to reach out. I want predictability and shooting a standing deer at 200 yards with my mz would be perfectly acceptable to me.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Point of tuning in the gun to tightest group possible is if you need to reach out. I want predictability and shooting a standing deer at 200 yards with my mz would be perfectly acceptable to me.

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Keeping in mind, "tuning it" on a bench, beyond aligning the the scope axis to the bore axis, will result in a false sense of predictability...unless you take all your sandbags and sled out to your stand :)

Like Ed said, once you move to a set of sticks or freestanding the errors grow exponentially, you'll be lucky to hit 5" of bull at 200yd..especially;

"while leaning against a tree, with elevated breathing, rapid pulse (excitement of the kill) at ranges normally in the sub 100 yd range. Add to that, it's Dec and he's shooting in below zero temps, wearing bulky cloths often in inclement weather".

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Keeping in mind, "tuning it" on a bench, beyond aligning the the scope axis to the bore axis, will result in a false sense of predictability...unless you take all your sandbags and sled out to your stand

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The point of tuning it is , is to find the best combination for your gun and to find out what it is capable of removing as much human error as possible on the bench.
Once that is done , the rest is up to the shooter and his/her capabilities using whatever is available to steady the shot, and of course we all know this will never get the same results as shooting of a bench using a rest and sandbags, but we strive to do the best under actual hunting conditions when the crucial moment comes .

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Keeping in mind, "tuning it" on a bench, beyond aligning the the scope axis to the bore axis, will result in a false sense of predictability...unless you take all your sandbags and sled out to your stand :)

Like Ed said, once you move to a set of sticks or freestanding the errors grow exponentially, you'll be lucky to hit 5" of bull at 200yd..especially;

"while leaning against a tree, with elevated breathing, rapid pulse (excitement of the kill) at ranges normally in the sub 100 yd range. Add to that, it's Dec and he's shooting in below zero temps, wearing bulky cloths often in inclement weather".

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Mike I practice freehand to 100 and use either a tripod or shooting rail/lean beyond that. Last year I took a yote at 132 yards with my savage 220 without an issue and another running freehand at just over 70. Also took a slow running deer at just over the 100 yard Mark with my savage 10ml with a lean. Laser ranged all. They dropped on the spot.

I was humbled a while ago with my offhand ability and decided to fix that problem. For yote practice its off tripod stick or bipod and we practice to 300. We expect under 3 -4 inch groups at 300 with a bipod. That takes practice and good ammo.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

The point of tuning it is , is to find the best combination for your gun and to find out what it is capable of removing as much human error as possible on the bench.
Once that is done , the rest is up to the shooter and his/her capabilities using whatever is available to steady the shot, and of course we all know this will never get the same results as shooting of a bench using a rest and sandbags, but we strive to do the best under actual hunting conditions when the crucial moment comes .

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Well said. If the gun is predictable the rest is up to you!

I'm a man of few words and even poorer typing skills but here goes.

GOD SAVAGE ML'S ARE JUNK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From their flimsy synthetic right up to their 50 pound laminate. Let's not forget their horrid to disassemble and lose POI with each disassembley when all break actions do not. Then OH, how much wear on your vent liner? Are you bumping the charge. All bull. A 200$ break action of any type makes a savage look tired. Did more than my tour of duty with em. Still got some of the stupid special tools req'd, not req'd by others. He!! I can strip to bore my CVA by hand. Not a savage. They've faded away conciderably. They'll soon go the way of all the new so called improvements. Look at how many cartridges have came on with hype in the last decade and died as fast. Where's the 7RUM ? Exactly. Randy Fakeman did a lot to bolster the savage ML which probably lead to it existing far longer than it should have, but. Even it is fading away

Your Einstein quote I find kind of funny. You fall into the stupidity part because you keep repeating yourself and clearly have no limit!

Why disassemble a Savage to clean it? Can you shoot smokeless powder in your break action Spanish steel gun? I can sell mine for 30% more than I paid brand new in probably less than an hour, can you? Vent liners are cheap and take less than 5 minutes to switch. The triggers on those Spanish break actions are complete garbage, my Accutrigger breaks like glass. I have done the breakaction gun thing and will never go back. We kill moose cleanly out 200yds with our smokeless Savages, wouldn't do that with BP or synthetics. And my gun groups 1.5" like clockwork at 100yds.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Why disassemble a Savage to clean it? Can you shoot smokeless powder in your break action Spanish steel gun? I can sell mine for 30% more than I paid brand new in probably less than an hour, can you? Vent liners are cheap and take less than 5 minutes to switch. The triggers on those Spanish break actions are complete garbage, my Accutrigger breaks like glass. I have done the breakaction gun thing and will never go back. We kill moose cleanly out 200yds with our smokeless Savages, wouldn't do that with BP or synthetics. And my gun groups 1.5" like clockwork at 100yds.

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Why can You sell Your savage so easy?

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Originally Posted by rippin_355

Your Einstein quote I find kind of funny. You fall into the stupidity part because you keep repeating yourself and clearly have no limit!

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Well that sure was reported to admin now wasn't it