late season

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Originally Posted by jobbershunting

I am on the fence on this topic. I understand that there is a market for a waterfowl guiding service because there are those who may only get out for one or two hunts a year and if I was that person I would look for a guided hunt too.

On the other hand, I can completely understand why the recreational hunter has such a dislike for guiding operations. The amount of pressure that a guiding service can put on birds in your area is remarkable, especially if they are highly successful and are taking clients out on a daily basis.

I my area (SE Ont.) we have several guiding services and more seem to pop up each year, imagine having 4 or 5 guiding operations running within your WMU, assume each one is taking out 4 clients four times a week (4x4x4 multiplied by the expected bag limit = 384 geese/week or just shy of 1,600 geese/month for your MWU and that is using conservative math.

Couple that with "opportunity", the recreational hunter more than likely only gets out on the weekend, which also happens to be the busiest time of the week for guiding operations. One is being motivated by money and the obligation to 'perform' to secure a field and produce a good hunt, while the other is motivated by their passion for the sport. Is there no better recipe for conflict?

Lastly, there was an excellent article in the Delta Waterfowl magazine a year or two ago talking about the observed shifts in migration routes either along the upper Mississippi Flyway or Lake Michigan area and the correlation to hunting pressure, more specifically guiding operations. The author was suggesting that traditional waterfowling hotspots are more susceptible than we think to 'burnout' from hunting pressure that can be applied by a high density of guiding operations. I'll continue to look for the article and will post it if I find it.

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Good point. I've seen it happen first hand with mallards near a small town close to where I live. The town has big lagoon ponds that used to hold thousands of ducks throughout the season. That many attracts a lot of attention from local outfitters they have pounded them so hard the numbers are way down. There is still ducks there but nothing like there used to be. They were fine when a couple groups I. The area shot them up on weekends only but not 6 or 7 days a week too hard on them

Money clearly plays some motivation in guiding? What that percentage is depends on the individual.

It surely motivates me... For example I donate a guided hunt to DU every year and it fetches around $1000.00 For that week I am highly motivated to put those 4 guys on a good hunt. They are guaranteed hunts so if I can't deliver than we do it again.

Barry I don't know you or Drew but I don't think his intentions are to offend. Guides and outfitters have more skin in the game than the rest of us and if money was not some motivating factor why do it at all then?

I don't see a problem from financially benefitting from doing something you clearly like. I trust you and Luke go to great efforts to put guys on great hunts, not because you need any more buddies but rather they are clients.

the only things i can add to these 7 pages is that Luke Scherders is a stand up guy.i have heard this directly from people i hunt with that have used his services.i also know duckslayer and sinker are great guys that will take fellows out to get some experience.i have had dealings with londondave and he is another good guy.
ps,i am an electrcian and love to go to work every day

true enough Bandwagon. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by bardern

I think I speak for Luke in saying that this is way off base for most of us Drew. Personally I take offence to that statement.

lets talk about Outfitters being motivated soley by money. As you know our local Delta Chapter has been very fortunate to have Dave Roy of St.Lawrence Outfitters as a major chapter supporter since the chapters first banquet. Every year Dave has been gracious enough to donate at least one and usually two hunts which are to be used as fund raising items. What it costs Dave is two days of guiding fees prolly in the neignbourhood of $1000 (I dont know Daves rates). One of his guides steps in if Dave can't make the hunt and does it for nothing, he loses a days pay. There we have men donating their time and money because of the respect and I assume passion they have for the sport.

We just saw a thread about garbage left on the shores of Ontario. One would think that given the nonprofessional appearance of the blind and area that these are "passionate" waterfowlers and not outfitters. so are we safe to say that ALL waterfowlers show as little respect for the sport?

Sorry for the rant Drew but I have to say expect better and am disappointed with your statement.

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Sorry to offend you Barry, that was not the intent of my post.

However, you don't get into any type of business without the desire to make a profit from it, otherwise it wouldn't be business it would be volunteering and that is exactly what Dave does for the chapter. He loves the sport, he wants to increase the visibility and accessibility for youth so he volunteers his expertise and equipment. Which, of course is a very honorable thing to do. I don't think there is anything "business" orientated behind his contribution to the chapter.

Unfortunately, you missed the entire objective of my post. I have no grudge against guides, and as I mentioned, if I was less fortunate to afford the opportunities to pursue the sport than I am now, I would most certainly be using a guide. I am actually looking to hire a guide for an east coast sea duck hunt, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathize with the recreational hunter on the coast of Rhode Island and the competition and pressure he has to contend with due to guiding operations in his area.

Currently this is just how the sport operates, it is a very competitive environment and it will only get more competitive.

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Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Money clearly plays some motivation in guiding? What that percentage is depends on the individual.

It surely motivates me... For example I donate a guided hunt to DU every year and it fetches around $1000.00 For that week I am highly motivated to put those 4 guys on a good hunt. They are guaranteed hunts so if I can't deliver than we do it again.

Barry I don't know you or Drew but I don't think his intentions are to offend. Guides and outfitters have more skin in the game than the rest of us and if money was not some motivating factor why do it at all then?

I don't see a problem from financially benefitting from doing something you clearly like. I trust you and Luke go to great efforts to put guys on great hunts, not because you need any more buddies but rather they are clients.

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Well said. I completely understand that there are excellent guides who are stewards of the sport, and clearly got into the business of guiding out of their passion for waterfowling. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the two groups (guides vs. recreational hunters) have, at times competing interests that share the same common resource (birds).

I have nothing against guides, but I have to wonder if at times people realise they are paying for the use of equipement. I have ran into the previously mentioned outfitter, and seen them on a few shows (TFB and Angler and Hunter). Every time I see them they are hunting areas which are pretty public. So essentially the client is paying for the use of equipment. Anyone that did any research and had any equipment could hunt these places. Obviously they have access to private land, but the times I have seen them its public.


On a seperate note, I see Team Fawl Brawl is affiliated and part owner with get hidden outfitters also in the county/napanee. This bothers me, simply because these guys with TFB have to be the most annoying ever to be on TV. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before I run into them in the field. Get Hidden is basically in the backyard of most of my hunting grounds.

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Originally Posted by toddy

On a seperate note, I see Team Fawl Brawl is affiliated and part owner with get hidden outfitters also in the county/napanee. This bothers me, simply because these guys with TFB have to be the most annoying ever to be on TV. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before I run into them in the field. Get Hidden is basically in the backyard of most of my hunting grounds.

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My understanding is that is no longer correct Toddy. I am under the impression that GetHidden moved about 150km's NE as the Goose Flies. I hope i'm not spreading rumours... but he (Get Hidden) was literally hunting in my backyard last fall (with clients, literally staying at my next door neighbors house).

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Originally Posted by toddy

I have nothing against guides, but I have to wonder if at times people realise they are paying for the use of equipement. I have ran into the previously mentioned outfitter, and seen them on a few shows (TFB and Angler and Hunter). Every time I see them they are hunting areas which are pretty public. So essentially the client is paying for the use of equipment. Anyone that did any research and had any equipment could hunt these places. Obviously they have access to private land, but the times I have seen them its public.


On a seperate note, I see Team Fawl Brawl is affiliated and part owner with get hidden outfitters also in the county/napanee. This bothers me, simply because these guys with TFB have to be the most annoying ever to be on TV. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before I run into them in the field. Get Hidden is basically in the backyard of most of my hunting grounds.

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Not everyone has time to do this. Hence, why they hire a guide. Same goes for hunting private, except you also have to gain permission first.