Nice seeing you post as well KC. Life is interesting, wouldn't have it any other way. :)
Here's something else people keep forgetting. They are rediculously underfunded and understaffed. Yet...given that...
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Nice seeing you post as well KC. Life is interesting, wouldn't have it any other way. :)
Here's something else people keep forgetting. They are rediculously underfunded and understaffed. Yet...given that...
From the Drummond report
http://envirolaw.com/drummond-report/
From another source (lots of information on this site)
http://www.eco.on.ca/uploads/Reports...s%20report.pdf
There are more reports in the one above, in one I read somewhere that the MoE and MNR have a combined 4,000 personal total. Think about that, that would barely qualify as a small town…A pin prick on the huge map of Ontario. Read those, in their entirety…….and weep.
Do some digging, research, find things out, talk to biologist if Moose or X are your "things".
Get involved.
Do the research? You need one bredung bull per three cows, post harvest numbers should be 67 bulls per hundred cows that includes bull calves and sub adults, 75 to 90 percent of cows will be bred, if a cow isn't bred for 2 consecutive years she will become a baron cow and most likely won't be able to get bred again, there is a current study going on for calf survival and calf mortality, there was a study recently into the effects of glyphosate and it leading to prognathism in our moose herds as well as deer and elk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilo Charlie
A cow will have her first calf in her third year. The MNR missed 3 cycles in sertain WMU's for moose surveys which is 9 years. When the survey is competed there is 4 people on the turbo beaver and they fly the grid at flight lines of 500 meters apart and each observer accounts for 250 meters of the flight line. The MNR wants to keep a moose herd of 120000 animals.
Regardless it's not about the research or not, I have a problem with people shooting the cows and leaving the calves, that is rediculous, shoot both or shoot the calf.
I grew up hunting 47, same deal, not a lot of deer, I was raised that a deer in the field is left alone, you want a deer you go in the bush and get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I understand completely that not every hunter has the same realities as me, and that isn't what this thread was about, the MNR has taken the opportunity for a hunter like me to do the right thing, what I feel is the right thing, I don't care what you do within your legal rights and everyone is able to have their own opinion.
I do hunt a lot, I am very successfull in my moose hunts, and get my moose every year, I work very hard for it, I am sure there aren't many people that do what I do to get their moose, I only know one an she's my wife and she's with me. Last year we hunted a week and didn't see a deer until the 5th day, and if it was a doe with a fawn I would have passed all day on it, but that's me, I don't care if you would have shot it, that's you legal right, but I wouldn't have.
Not a lot of deer in 47?
Are you kidding me? Thats the Loring yards and guess what, I hunt there. With guys who have hunted it all their lives and seen their pictures going back to the 70s and 80s and utter gob smacking images of numbers on meat poles, and tales of 40 deer with eyes on you and you can't move because there sooooooo many, and drives that would……..
6,000 tags issued there the past few years. The most, anywhere in the province and I bet historically for decades.
lol, Ive read some funny things over the years, or things I couldn't understand where the poster is coming from but their realities, may not be mine, so I accept their pov, but someone claiming not a lot of deer in 47 is one of the funnier.
just going to pick one thing out (because truly zero interest "arguing" and believe strongly in "too each their own" aka your opinion is your opinion……..or holier than though people who can't have open minds, see that so many things can changes a persons perspective, whatever) like for example, why its easy to be selective if you hunt 47 vs a guy who only gets out for 6 days in the entire year and where numbers truly are really thin….And why a guy like me might burn my tag, so they can feel it, or have some meat in the freezer….after all I will be hunting 47 as well where chances are……I might see 40 deer in a day…vs other friends who haven't seen 20 deer in 6 years added together,and where guys come in at night talking about how many they saw, and high fives when someone get one….and so on and so on and so on.
But seeing as your so fixated on blaming the mnr.
Quote:
A cow will have her first calf in her third year. The MNR missed 3 cycles in certain WMU's for moose surveys which is 9 years.
Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands, but none to read the above links and put it together.
No money, nowhere near enough boots on the ground and more and its been like that since around the early 90s.
[QUOTE=JBen;915327]Not a lot of deer in 47?
Are you kidding me? Thats the Loring yards and guess what, I hunt there. With guys who have hunted it all their lives and seen their pictures going back to the 70s and 80s and utter gob smacking images of numbers on meat poles, and tales of 40 deer with eyes on you and you can't move because there sooooooo many, and drives that would……..
6,000 tags issued there the past few years. The most, anywhere in the province and I bet historically for decades.
lol, Ive read some funny things over the years, or things I couldn't understand where the poster is coming from but their realities, may not be mine, so I accept their pov, but someone claiming not a lot of deer in 47 is one of the funnier.
just going to pick one thing out (because truly zero interest "arguing" and believe strongly in "too each their own" aka your opinion is your opinion……..or holier than though people who can't have open minds, see that so many things can changes a persons perspective, whatever) like for example, why its easy to be selective if you hunt 47 vs a guy who only gets out for 6 days in the entire year and where numbers truly are really thin….And why a guy like me might burn my tag, so they can feel it, or have some meat in the freezer….after all I will be hunting 47 as well.
But seeing as your so fixated on blaming the mnr.
Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands, but none to read the above links and put it together.[/
Not hunting near the loring deer yards,
Close to trout creek, big difference, and the deer yards don't get busy until the snow falls, and I have family in port and they said the deer populations are way down there as well. And this past deer season I hunted the Nestor falls area, can't say that's near the deer yards! The deer populations are a whole different matter, and no I don't spend a lot of time reading articles, actually don't read any, I happen to have a wildlife specialist that is a real good friend and we talk about this from time to time, I also see the moose hunt surveys and projects first hand and know people that are in the plane doing the surveys, And conduct the surveys year after year.
Exactly, and don't think I didn't consider that possibility :)
Your realities….may not be the next persons….:)
for the record without giving away the exact location, we hunt golden valley. Point being "my" realities and thus my experiences, perspectives what not can be very different than the next persons. Which is what Ive been trying to get across. Its all good.
But on the topic of the MNR and questioning, or blaming…
Theres lots to consider, not the least of which is talk to biologist, talk to trappers ( I know a few up north, including a couple with BMAs and in their perspectives, theres still good numbers of Moose)
One persons "reality" may not be the next persons.
Why don't the MNR have anywhere near enough boots….
Queens Park
And why are they the lowest priority bottom of funding ladder?
Who do politicians listen to? Cater to, try to make happy, buy votes from?
US
the people
If WE CARED, there'd be more funding.
It may be our priority but it isn't even within the realm of consideration for the voting base in Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
What was the stat provided? 3% of Ontarians hunt? Of course every government will maximize their dollar/vote expenditure and catering to 3% is not a good return. We are lucky to get the floor sweepings and it will only get worse. The reality is moose are on the decline for whatever the reason or combination of reasons and unless they reduce the harvest of breeding cows to the point where that can be turned around then it falls on hunters to manage what the ministry doesn't do properly. You can have all the Phds you want making management decisions but in the end it's the hunters who are the ones who actually are in the field, see the game and kill it. Hunters have the final decision. Do what you feel is right and within the laws.
Agreed "mostly" FW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy
Don't forget its the MoE as well. Those links if one reads through them are staggering, sobering, when you consider. How much Ontario has exploded since around 1990, and how little funding the MoE and MNR get, and then……try to wrap your brain around.
The size of Ontario
That we have (not sure exact amount, but in Cda its over 90%) most of the worlds fresh water
All they are asked to do, expected to do……………..need to do.
It's one thing to point fingers at S. Ont or the GTA, or….
But the fact is, we are part of it to.
How many grass roots be it Ducks Unlimited, be Trout unlimited, countless, countless regional grassroots are all
begging for money or volunteers.
Even OFAH. One may not agree with all their decisions, directions, but again consider all…..
Better something, than nothing.
And there are lots, I bet reading these forums who aren't members……
We gripe and moan every time anything goes up 2 cents, be it our outdoors cards, or the cost of a tag or……We aren't without our own roles and imo never throw stones at glass houses.
So what are we to do? If we care about "tomorrow" and especially our resources.