Carry shotgun while filling feeders?

As a bear guide it is my job to ensure that my customers are safe at all times.
While baiting and taking clients to the stand I carry a "legal" side arm. Both my partner and I are licensed to carry sidearms in our BMA. These are not easy to get and must be renewed on a yearly basis.

Both my partner and I have been confronted and charged by bears on our baits but we have not had to dispatch any of these bears.

I recommend carrying a firearm and be very attentive when approaching a bait.

I always carry a sidearm when visiting my grow-ops in the bush... am I breaking any laws?

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

This is really an area of concern, that the MNRF needs to re-evaluate. On the site ask A CO, a grouse hunter asked if he could carry slugs with him for bear while out grouse hunting. The CO's replied was yes, provided he wore hunter orange and had a bear licence. This miffed me for a bit until I checked out the bear season, and found it ran from the beginning of September until the end of November in most WMUs. Walking around with slugs in your pocket and not being dressed in hunter orange or having a bear licence, basically puts you in a position of violating the Fish and Game Conservation Act. Even if your primary concern is self defense and self preservation. However pg. 79 of the 2015 regulation under Firearms, appears to cut you some slack if you hunt south of the French and Mattawa Rivers during an open season for deer that is restricted to the use of bows. The Archery Season for deer in my WMU is October 1st. So from September 19 until October 1 I'm wondering if the MNRF is liable to provided me with a CO to ride shotgun with slugs, while I'm out grouse hunting with bird-shot , in the event that I come across an aggressive bear. I suspect this is a ploy to get you to buy a bear licence and wear hunter orange, or wait until the Archery Season for deer before you go grouse hunting.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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A load of bird shot at 5ft is the same as a slug, it may actually hit harder than that.
If you are concerned about defense loads you can use up to #2 lead, find a few boxes of heavy rounds and keep that with you. Another option is the Federal Controlled Wad turkey loads, they make them in 20ga and 12ga, the wad does not have petals so the shot holds together and will act like a slug at close range.

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Originally Posted by Fox

A load of bird shot at 5ft is the same as a slug, it may actually hit harder than that.

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Hi Fox, not wanting to start anything but this is very incorrect. There are lots of studies and videos you can watch online when they compare birdshot to buckshot to slugs mostly in the name of self defence. Lots of interesting things to watch when tested on drywall at close proximity.

At 5 ft that slug will likely pass right through you and the 2 people standing behind you. I doubt any birdshot would pass through a human at that distance. I'm not saying it isn't lethal but the 2 methods are not comparable.

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Originally Posted by Fox

A load of bird shot at 5ft is the same as a slug, it may actually hit harder than that.

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Originally Posted by JeffBondar

I doubt any birdshot would pass through a human at that distance. I'm not saying it isn't lethal but the 2 methods are not comparable.

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Fox is correct ...I posted this trial a few yrs back when the topic came up...

This is 2 3/4 #5 shot from 8' away thru a 3/4" piece if plywood....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps336905ae.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...psb45ea7e8.jpg

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Originally Posted by JeffBondar

Hi Fox, not wanting to start anything but this is very incorrect. There are lots of studies and videos you can watch online when they compare birdshot to buckshot to slugs mostly in the name of self defence. Lots of interesting things to watch when tested on drywall at close proximity.

At 5 ft that slug will likely pass right through you and the 2 people standing behind you. I doubt any birdshot would pass through a human at that distance. I'm not saying it isn't lethal but the 2 methods are not comparable.

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It has nothing to do with penetration through the bear, all you have to do is get the shot into the vitals and the animal is dead. There are lots of self defense articles stating how rifles, handguns and shotgun slugs are by far the least safe rounds for self defense as they do penetrate building materials and can kill someone in another room or house (see the post a few weeks ago about a guy shot by his neighbour). A round of shot at 5ft, even #7.5 shot has enough power to go through the bear and into the vitals, no problem there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFqaj_lmVjc

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Originally Posted by JeffBondar

Hi Fox, not wanting to start anything but this is very incorrect. There are lots of studies and videos you can watch online when they compare birdshot to buckshot to slugs mostly in the name of self defence. Lots of interesting things to watch when tested on drywall at close proximity.

At 5 ft that slug will likely pass right through you and the 2 people standing behind you. I doubt any birdshot would pass through a human at that distance. I'm not saying it isn't lethal but the 2 methods are not comparable.

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Gotta agree with Jeff on this. If you want to compare the two, shoot them into a chunk of pine or something like it. Slugs - even the soft foster style ones will give far better penetration than bird shot.

However - in practical terms wrt bear defense, I think either would work okay - assuming you are shooting the bear in the face at close range. Where the birdshot would be less effective is if you hit the bear in the shoulder - where a bit of penetration is required.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Fox is correct ...I posted this trial a few yrs back when the topic came up...

This is 2 3/4 #5 shot from 8' away thru a 3/4" piece if plywood....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps336905ae.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...psb45ea7e8.jpg

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There have been some tests with ballistic materials as well, the heavy loads of shot at close range are nasty, once the shot slows down it turns any which way, similar to a bullet tumble but when a 1 1/8oz load of #7.5 with about 400 pellets it opens up in a devastating way.

Here's a real world video on actual meat, birdshot does not penetrate to get to vitals....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wCnKo6-NKQ

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Gotta agree with Jeff on this. If you want to compare the two, shoot them into a chunk of pine or something like it. Slugs - even the soft foster style ones will give far better penetration than bird shot.

However - in practical terms wrt bear defense, I think either would work okay - assuming you are shooting the bear in the face at close range. Where the birdshot would be less effective is if you hit the bear in the shoulder - where a bit of penetration is required.

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At close range there is almost no difference, I am not talking yards but rather feet. If you are shooting the bear at 30 yards it is not a life and death situation, if the bear is 10 feet away and you shoot it in the face, shoulder, hind end, either way it is either going to turn the bear, kill the bear or piss the bear off, one of 3 options. The head of a bear is super strong, shoot under the chin rather than at the head and you have a better chance of stopping the bear no matter what you are shooting.