It happened again :(

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Big Turk - here is your answer - from someone who knows - http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/1...event-violence

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Joepa,

I agree it takes a good guy with a gun to dispatch a bad guy with a gun. The question remains though (at least in my mind)...with the model proposed by the sherif, how many people will get killed before the assailant is dispatched by the good guy with a gun?
To me...if the answer is anything but zero, then this is not the correct solution.
I cant see the good guy with the gun being in the right place at the right time all the time.




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Originally Posted by BigTurk

Joepa,

I agree it takes a good guy with a gun to dispatch a bad guy with a gun. The question remains though (at least in my mind)...with the model proposed by the sherif, how many people will get killed before the assailant is dispatched by the good guy with a gun?
To me...if the answer is anything but zero, then this is not the correct solution.
I cant see the good guy with the gun being in the right place at the right time all the time.




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There is also the fact , that most armed citizens are not trained well enough to become effective at killing bad guys under stressful situations, and they themselves wind up getting killed.

Just seen an interesting stat scrolled across the TV screen here in gun crazy Texas. The USA has 5 percent of the worlds population. It has 25 percent of the incarcerated worlds population.
So right off the bat they have to deal with the root cause of this issue.
It has nothing directly to do with the subject of mass shootings but it does show a propensity toward violent solutions to situations.

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Originally Posted by BigTurk

Joepa,

I agree it takes a good guy with a gun to dispatch a bad guy with a gun. The question remains though (at least in my mind)...with the model proposed by the sherif, how many people will get killed before the assailant is dispatched by the good guy with a gun?
To me...if the answer is anything but zero, then this is not the correct solution.
I cant see the good guy with the gun being in the right place at the right time all the time.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Do you have kids?

Two coaches at that school died protecting the kids the only way they could. They used their own bodies as shields to stop bullets. They decided that they would rather die as a 'DEFENCELESS TARGET" for the shooter then see kids get hurt or killed. How much could the story have changed if just those two coaches had been armed. They already KNEW they were going to die, would it not be at least been fair to have at least given them the chance to shoot back?

As for the good guy with the gun being at the "Right" place at the"Right" time, are you fine with the bad guy being at the wrong place any time? Mass shooters do not attack people randomly, they pick places where they will "NOT" likely find a good guy with a gun.

Turk - it is impossible to say that victims of such crimes will be zero all the time -it comes with the risk of living - sometimes a good guy will shoot the bad guy before he kills anyone - sometimes the good guy will shoot the bad guy after he kills someone but before he kills more - considering all the factors involved in these mass shooting incidents there isn't any other options - there are sick people out there - there are bad people out there - there are millions of guns out there - and unfortunately we can't get all people to live good lives - evil will always be with us - as far as root causes for such behavior - mental illness, social outcasts, economic injustice, social injustice, just plain evil tendencies, lack of charity to others , on and on - so you see we will always have situations where someone will want to hurt others - the only thing you can do is prepare for it - finally one might say - take all guns away from people but then you know that would only make it worse - you would only have bad people with the guns

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Do you have kids?

Two coaches at that school died protecting the kids the only way they could. They used their own bodies as shields to stop bullets. They decided that they would rather die as a 'DEFENCELESS TARGET" for the shooter then see kids get hurt or killed. How much could the story have changed if just those two coaches had been armed. They already KNEW they were going to die, would it not be at least been fair to have at least given them the chance to shoot back?

As for the good guy with the gun being at the "Right" place at the"Right" time, are you fine with the bad guy being at the wrong place any time? Mass shooters do not attack people randomly, they pick places where they will "NOT" likely find a good guy with a gun.

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“Mass shooters do not attack people randomly, they pick places where they will "NOT" likely find a good guy with a gun.”

Yes. I do have kids. 2 awesome kids. What if they were in a cafeteria and an assailant opened up? Who would be there to protect them??? Cafeteria lady???? Who the f&@k would protect them???



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Originally Posted by JoePa

Turk - it is impossible to say that victims of such crimes will be zero all the time -it comes with the risk of living - sometimes a good guy will shoot the bad guy before he kills anyone - sometimes the good guy will shoot the bad guy after he kills someone but before he kills more - considering all the factors involved in these mass shooting incidents there isn't any other options - there are sick people out there - there are bad people out there - there are millions of guns out there - and unfortunately we can't get all people to live good lives - evil will always be with us - as far as root causes for such behavior - mental illness, social outcasts, economic injustice, social injustice, just plain evil tendencies, lack of charity to others , on and on - so you see we will always have situations where someone will want to hurt others - the only thing you can do is prepare for it - finally one might say - take all guns away from people but then you know that would only make it worse - you would only have bad people with the guns

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Joepa,

When in the history of the USA have you seen shootings as bad as they are now? Has there been a time?
I am in no way an advocate of taking guns away from people. No friggen way! At the same time...one has to recognize this as an issue right now. This is a problem Joepa.
People that want to do harm are getting access to guns easily. This should not be the case. The system is broken. Not blaming anyone, or any parties, but its broken.



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Big Turk, you will find arguing with J P a waste of time as he has the Donald Trump Koolaid jug sitting by his side at all times.

So lets go back to the VEGAS shooting, worst in USA History. How could a Good Guy at a concert with a Handgun have stopped this guy? He was out of range for anyone with a handgun, you know what would have happened with ALL those people with handguns, they would have Shot Each other thinking the guy with the gun 20' away was the Bad Guy. But as Joe says, a few innocent people dying is sometimes the cost. WOW WOW WOW.

So arm all Teachers, well then they will just shoot the kids before or after school. More Guns does not make it any safer, just means the shooter picks a different spot. First thing they need to do re the schools is make them harder to gain entry to, have a single point of entry and possibly a armed guard at that entry point. Metal Detectors that automactically lock doors if they go off, has to be so many low hanging fruit ways to make them safer, Understand this guy pulled a fire alarm, was it outside the school? Haven't heard that detail yet.

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Originally Posted by BigTurk

What if they were in a cafeteria and an assailant opened up? Who would be there to protect them??? Cafeteria lady???? Who the f&@k would protect them??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Maybe. When I was in High school, the Cafeteria lady(guy) was Retired PPCLI. I also find your option that a woman would not be able to stop a shooter to be sexist. Do you not think women can do anything other then cook and have babies?

Turk - to answer your question - no things like this didn't happen years ago or if they did it was very rare - I personally don't remember any - our society has changed - when I went to high school we had a prayer assembly once a week where the bible was read - that was in a public high school - most people believed in God and acted accordingly - they believed that a person would be accountable for their actions - today many don't believe in moral absolutes - do your own thing - also life is cheap today - we get upset when people are shot in a mass shooting (rightly so ) but where is the outcry when millions upon millions of babies are slaughtered in abortion clinics - the godless liberals has been successful in getting God out of schools and now we got to worry about guns - and I'll tell you something - things are not going to get any better - you may look down here and see all the crime but believe me it will eventually get up there - it"s just a matter of time -

There is a war going on for the soul of our country - thank God the people wised up and have thrown a lot of progressive liberals out of office - the liberals have soiled so many agencies - the FBI, Dept of Justice and the National Security Agency have all been politicized - we can't even trust these agencies anymore - it is a shame -