Covid 2nd Wave....fact or fiction

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Like was said before, most of those dying in LTC, have DNR orders. Many more seniors could have been saved if not for those orders.

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I don't think you comprehend what the purpose of the DNR is...it's to endure that they DO NOT survive if they get sicker. And they initiate it and sign it.

And You worked there, scary ..HaHa...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I don't think you comprehend what the purpose of the DNR is...it's to endure that they DO NOT survive if they get sicker. And they initiate it and sign it.

And You worked there, scary ..HaHa...

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95% of the time it was at the family's request, not the residents, the family member with the POA has the final say. Do you put a DNR order on your 25 year old child with MS, most would not. Your 90 year old mother would be an easier decision.

DNR, really means don't try to do heroic measures to prolong life. You know how many times I did CPR on a 90 + person without a DNR order? To many. You would do CPR, and push their ribs right through to the bed. . The Paramedics would do CPR until they got into the ambulance then stop. Starting again when the doors opened at the hospital. DN Resuscitate, really means bringing back from the dead. If you saw someone in the process of choking you would save them. But if when you found them, they had already passed out and no longer breathing you would not initiate CPR.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I don't think you comprehend what the purpose of the DNR is...it's to endure that they DO NOT survive if they get sicker. And they initiate it and sign it.

And You worked there, scary ..HaHa...

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My mom is on that list ,it's scary when she has a surgery done that's for sure.

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With a DNR, some can not even have surgery as this would mean being intubated, and some people would not be able to be taken back off the line after they were on it. This can cause a major dilemma for medical staff as it might then push the envelope of an assisted suicide. All kinds of slippery slopes with a DNR.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

95% of the time it was at the family's request, not the residents, the family member with the POA has the final say. Do you put a DNR order on your 25 year old child with MS, most would not. Your 90 year old mother would be an easier decision.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

DNR, really means don't try to do heroic measures to prolong life. You know how many times I did CPR on a 90 + person without a DNR order? To many. You would do CPR, and push their ribs right through to the bed. . The Paramedics would do CPR until they got into the ambulance then stop. Starting again when the doors opened at the hospital. DN Resuscitate, really means bringing back from the dead. If you saw someone in the process of choking you would save them. But if when you found them, they had already passed out and no longer breathing you would not initiate CPR.

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Neither of those posts support your comment...quite the opposite.

A lot of homes require a DNR from the family as a condition of residence ....and families agree. So no, MORE seniors would have have been saved.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Like was said before, most of those dying in LTC, have DNR orders. Many more seniors could have been saved if not for those orders.

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And the legacy of the problems with Private LTC facilities rests with Jean Chrétien...always follow the money...:)

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Originally Posted by johnjyb

With a DNR, some can not even have surgery as this would mean being intubated, and some people would not be able to be taken back off the line after they were on it. This can cause a major dilemma for medical staff as it might then push the envelope of an assisted suicide. All kinds of slippery slopes with a DNR.

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She had heart surgery if she died during the process they were told to stop working . Kinda sucks but those are her wishes.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Neither of those posts support your comment...quite the opposite.

A lot of homes require a DNR from the family as a condition of residence ....and families agree. So no, MORE seniors would have have been saved.




And the legacy of the problems with Private LTC facilities rests with Jean Chrétien...always follow the money...:)

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I worked for the City of Toronto in one of 10 metro owned homes for over 30 years. I have never heard of a DNR order being needed before admission. It is suggested strongly by the Dr.s and all medical personal, but they cannot compel you sign one. When I worked at a LTC facility, about 90% of our home of 250 residents had one , but 10% did not. At every resident care conference which was held held twice yearly with all pertinent home personal present, the POA would be asked if a change of order was desired. At any time the POA could arrange a meeting to change the order.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I worked for the City of Toronto in one of 10 metro owned homes for over 30 years. I have never heard of a DNR order being needed before admission. It is suggested strongly by the Dr.s and all medical personal, but they cannot compel you sign one. When I worked at a LTC facility, about 90% of our home of 250 residents had one , but 10% did not. At every resident care conference which was held held twice yearly with all pertinent home personal present, the POA would be asked if a change of order was desired. At any time the POA could arrange a meeting to change the order.

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So again you're supporting the fact that DNR's are common, encouraged and sought after by LTC facilities...it's why so many residents died when they contracted Covid....they could NOT be saved, it was against theirs ( or their POA) wishes.

Will we ever have the stats to show how many would-could have been saved by intubation? Remember that they all had underlying conditions. I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly in LTC. It was a disaster waiting to happen.