Ontario’s sweeping Moose Project proposal leaves hunters reeling. Have your say now.

I've been reading the newer comments from all of the other threads on this forum and several on CGN and there's one thing that no one has mentioned,yet,is the high degree of mechanization of Moose hunting in this province. Everybody and their uncle is using ATV's to gain access to areas that,traditonally,have only been able to be accessed either by boat,aircraft or on foot. Many American and western Canada areas have seen ATV use disallowed for hunting. Maybe,it's something we should look at,also.

I think the use of ATV's has impacted all forms of hunting. When closing a road is suggested there's a near revolt. Snowmobiles have done the same thing to the trout populations in many Ontario lakes. Not many guys willing to portage in through the bugs when they can roar into the lake on a sled.

Some areas should be closed to ATV travel for sure.

Bingo. I have been saying this for years.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I've been reading the newer comments from all of the other threads on this forum and several on CGN and there's one thing that no one has mentioned,yet,is the high degree of mechanization of Moose hunting in this province. Everybody and their uncle is using ATV's to gain access to areas that,traditonally,have only been able to be accessed either by boat,aircraft or on foot. Many American and western Canada areas have seen ATV use disallowed for hunting. Maybe,it's something we should look at,also.

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Originally Posted by DanO

I think the use of ATV's has impacted all forms of hunting. When closing a road is suggested there's a near revolt. Snowmobiles have done the same thing to the trout populations in many Ontario lakes. Not many guys willing to portage in through the bugs when they can roar into the lake on a sled.

Some areas should be closed to ATV travel for sure.

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I would agree and go along with that as long as it was applied equally to all involved. That has been done to us as hunters and fishers in numerous areas over the years. Unfortunately it dosnt apply to F.N. and outfitters, it only benifits and protects both. Do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen thow.

Moose numbers are down across their range. Probably a bit optimistic to blame predators or First Nations -- or hunters.

Thing is, you can only manage what you can control. For the MNR, that's hunters.

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Originally Posted by welsh

Moose numbers are down across their range. Probably a bit optimistic to blame predators or First Nations -- or hunters.

Thing is, you can only manage what you can control. For the MNR, that's hunters.

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Exactly. Also I would be curious just how many wolves actually get shot by sport hunters? My guess ( and that is all it is a guess) is that trappers probably take 100x more wolves and the no hunting laws don't affect those guys. I would also guess the MNR have a pretty darn good idea how many moose the first nations take. They just don't make that information public but I would think it is definitely factored in when setting tag quotas. We can point the finger at the other guy all we want but in the end we need to reduce the hunting pressure. We can debate effective and fair tag allocation all we want that's a seperate subject but first we need to reduce the amount of moose killed and especially the breeding females.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Exactly. Also I would be curious just how many wolves actually get shot by sport hunters? My guess ( and that is all it is a guess) is that trappers probably take 100x more wolves and the no hunting laws don't affect those guys. I would also guess the MNR have a pretty darn good idea how many moose the first nations take. They just don't make that information public but I would think it is definitely factored in when setting tag quotas. We can point the finger at the other guy all we want but in the end we need to reduce the hunting pressure. We can debate effective and fair tag allocation all we want that's a seperate subject but first we need to reduce the amount of moose killed and especially the breeding females.

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EXACTLY. WELL SAID terrym. As I posted previously. #1- Reduce tags. #2- Reduce predators #3- Shorten season. And in my opinion, #1 is or should be a no brainer to rhe mnr. Limited antlerless tags brought our deer herds back for some time . Then lo and behold someone had a brain cramp at mnr and they handed tags out like candy,up to 7 per person or per game hog would be more accurate, per year. End result ,the fewest deer we have had in over 20 years. They claim it had nothing to do with the extra tags but was caused by weather and coyotes. In my opinion the mnr is always 5-10 years behind before they react and when they do it is usually over the top or little or nothing.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I've been reading the newer comments from all of the other threads on this forum and several on CGN and there's one thing that no one has mentioned,yet,is the high degree of mechanization of Moose hunting in this province. Everybody and their uncle is using ATV's to gain access to areas that,traditonally,have only been able to be accessed either by boat,aircraft or on foot. Many American and western Canada areas have seen ATV use disallowed for hunting. Maybe,it's something we should look at,also.

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I don't think closing off areas to ATV's etc is a very good idea at all! Doing so will only concentrate most the hunters to the limited areas they can access. Also we do have an aging hunter population with limited mobility. There would be a huge drop in hunter #'s if these older hunters were now squeezed out of the game. This country is our country! It belongs to ALL OF US! Access to all of the crown land is our right NOT A PRIVILEGE! Seasons, limits, management of our game - NOT our hunters is the way it should work!
Closing access will only benefit the select few to an exclusive area of land that they don't own or pay taxes for! WE ALL PAY and we should all use it.

Also if access is denied then ATV sales will plummet. Most of the moose hunters only use their ATV for a couple weeks a year! In a nutshell - If the gov't is concerned about revenue - closing off crown access would be a disaster!

Fished out trout lakes by snowmobilers! Don't blame the snowmobile! Either slot size or reduce the limit! Pretty easy cure to the ailment if you ask me.

^^^
Agreed.

Blows my mind how easily some are willing to give up their rights.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Exactly. Also I would be curious just how many wolves actually get shot by sport hunters? My guess ( and that is all it is a guess) is that trappers probably take 100x more wolves and the no hunting laws don't affect those guys. I would also guess the MNR have a pretty darn good idea how many moose the first nations take. They just don't make that information public but I would think it is definitely factored in when setting tag quotas. We can point the finger at the other guy all we want but in the end we need to reduce the hunting pressure. We can debate effective and fair tag allocation all we want that's a seperate subject but first we need to reduce the amount of moose killed and especially the breeding females.

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I agree without having any data on how many wolves taken under small game licences prior to the seal system then no one knows the impact the seal system has caused , I'd be willing to bet the number of wolves taken by hunters is quite small , the amount of wolves taken by trappers is a known number because of our mandatory reporting requirement .

If we truly wanted data on where our calves where ending up our MNR needs to use the technology available and do some VIT implants and get some data on mortality causes in calves and the ability to collar them when they are born , sometimes I wonder why we always do things years to late in the province