Excalibur crossbows - do not buy

Quote:

---

My arrows go through both sides of the deer; how much farther do I need them to fly after that?

---

Best line ever.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninepointer

I'm still hunting with my 25 year old Exocet. Somewhere along the way I installed mag-tip limbs so I could use fast-flight strings. Its bullet-proof.

I've seen and heard all the hype with the newer models over the years (both pre and post Bowtech), and I've even shot a few of them. Yet nothing has persuaded me to "upgrade" my bow.

I set up my hunting spots for 20 yard shots and will take shots out to 30 yards in the bush. I hunt deer mostly from the ground with a tree at my back (turkey hunting style) with some brush strategically piled in front of me. My arrows go through both sides of the deer; how much farther do I need them to fly after that?

---

NP - the "need for speed" in archery isn't about penetration - it's about flatter trajectories and less reaction time on the deer's part.
...which raises another question - why the move in the industry to 150gr heads - which would go counter to all this?

I use a 2009 phoenix with no aftermarkets. No plans to upgrade. When I bought it, it was because of simplicity and reliability.
All I see in the new models is these high value design attributes being abandoned.
I set up for 25 yards, but would add another 10 if an extreme case presented itself - you know - monster buck, running out of daylight, and not expecting him to come in closer - that sort of thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by werner.reiche

...which raises another question - why the move in the industry to 150gr heads - which would go counter to all this?

---

The move to heavier heads and/or heavier bolts/arrows is likely to stabilize bolt/arrow at higher speeds. Faster speeds equals less accuracy where bolts/arrows are concerned especially when tipped with fixed blade models that have large surface areas as compared to mechanicals/field points. Air resistance and the associated forces that can cause an arrow/bolt to plane is a function of the velocity squared. Due to the squaring effect the affect is magnified even with modest speed increases. The easiest way to counter this is to increase weight to combat the forces at play and reduce the speed marginally to lessen the forces. Putting more weight up front also increases the FOC of the bolt/arrow which as long as not excessive usually improves accuracy as well. So it is a trade off - you get extra speed but have to sacrifice a modest amount of the potential by using a heavier combination in order to maintain your accuracy.

You are spot on species. It was explained to me by my local dealer that with the faster Xbows light tips are not as accurate so he guided me to the 150 grain bolt cutter fixed blade for my G340. A heavier front of centre helps stabilize the fasters bolt speeds and he was right. My Xbow shoots the 150 grain bolt cutters like a field point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

The move to heavier heads and/or heavier bolts/arrows is likely to stabilize bolt/arrow at higher speeds. Faster speeds equals less accuracy where bolts/arrows are concerned especially when tipped with fixed blade models that have large surface areas as compared to mechanicals/field points. Air resistance and the associated forces that can cause an arrow/bolt to plane is a function of the velocity squared. Due to the squaring effect the affect is magnified even with modest speed increases. The easiest way to counter this is to increase weight to combat the forces at play and reduce the speed marginally to lessen the forces. Putting more weight up front also increases the FOC of the bolt/arrow which as long as not excessive usually improves accuracy as well. So it is a trade off - you get extra speed but have to sacrifice a modest amount of the potential by using a heavier combination in order to maintain your accuracy.

---

What he said:D. I assemble my own bolts and before the 150gr heads came out i installed brass inserts to have a correct balance point with 100gr heads. TC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by huntnmachine

You are spot on species. It was explained to me by my local dealer that with the faster Xbows light tips are not as accurate so he guided me to the 150 grain bolt cutter fixed blade for my G340. A heavier front of centre helps stabilize the fasters bolt speeds and he was right. My Xbow shoots the 150 grain bolt cutters like a field point

---

Have you ever run your 150’s through a chrono.....it would be interesting to see the impact they have on speed...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

Have you ever run your 150’s through a chrono.....it would be interesting to see the impact they have on speed...

---

I have a Matrix 380 and have tested it with both 100 grain Solid fixed blade and 150 grain boltcutters through a chrony set about 6 feet in front of the crossbow. With the 100 grain heads i was getting an average 382 fps and with the 150 grain heads i was averaging 361 fps.

Also did the similar testing with a buddy's Mega 405. With 100 grain Solid fixed we averaged 409 fps and than switching to 170 grain FOC mechanical heads we averaged 376 fps.

Honestly excal took a dive off a cliff when they started trying to compete for speed with a recurve design. In my humble opinion, a crossbow should never have a draw weight higher than 200lbs out of convenience and safety. Power stroke is what gives velocity, not draw weight (still does but much less than PS). Just look at medevial crossbows, 400lbs+ draw weight and none of them go near the slowest of todays crossbows. The only way to achieve draw length with a recurve is to make the limbs cartoonishly wide like the Excal assassin that's 30" wide uncocked!!! Sorry but the compound design is simply superior, all you hear about recurves is "you can change the limbs and string easily!" or "You can break it and hunt in the same day!", which is ironic because you only ever hear of recurves snapping or breaking because of the obscene draw weight. Regardless, who throws their bow off a truck? Even if the bow survives your scope sure as heck wont.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

I have a Matrix 380 and have tested it with both 100 grain Solid fixed blade and 150 grain boltcutters through a chrony set about 6 feet in front of the crossbow. With the 100 grain heads i was getting an average 382 fps and with the 150 grain heads i was averaging 361 fps.

Also did the similar testing with a buddy's Mega 405. With 100 grain Solid fixed we averaged 409 fps and than switching to 170 grain FOC mechanical heads we averaged 376 fps.

---

Sounds like you sacrifice a bit of speed for better accuracy.
Thanks for the info....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by werner.reiche

NP - the "need for speed" in archery isn't about penetration - it's about flatter trajectories and less reaction time on the deer's part.
...which raises another question - why the move in the industry to 150gr heads - which would go counter to all this?

I use a 2009 phoenix with no aftermarkets. No plans to upgrade. When I bought it, it was because of simplicity and reliability.
All I see in the new models is these high value design attributes being abandoned.
I set up for 25 yards, but would add another 10 if an extreme case presented itself - you know - monster buck, running out of daylight, and not expecting him to come in closer - that sort of thing.

---

My post from Saturday was lost in the forum glitch.

I also believe that Excaliber has stressed out the limbs on their newer models.

My 2008 Phoenix is very accurate and bullet proof… Yes it is wide and cumbersome.

The low draw weight is very easy on my limbs and serving. I am on my third string (Flemish Fast Flight) after 11 years of use.

I plan to use this bow for the rest of my hunting days.

I killed my 30th deer with the Phoenix on December 10 and my 31st deer two days ago.

I strive for a 20 yard or less shot and will never shoot at a deer over 30 yards as I enjoy bow hunting and the challenge of getting a deer very close to me. There is less room for error at these ranges and a better chance for a humane and ethical shot.