Ask a C/O, spring time training

Last year some emails were submitted to the ask a CO about running pointing dogs in the spring and the answer is cut and dry.......it is considered hunting and therefore illegal unless one apples for and receives a permit from the MNRF, they basically only give permits to those running field trials. Would love to know if anyone has received a permit other than for a field trial? I assume lots of guys on the forum have these permits considering there are threads about this subject including pictures of how messy it can be in the spring. I’ll include the email correspondence I received in this thread.

I always thought it was illegal, I’m surprised that they even allow permits for such training. I thought that was the whole purpose of a game farm, for training and enjoyment, etc. I find it irresponsible to continue such an activity in the name of training. It just isn’t fair to a migratory bird or any other game bird. I think it adds unneeded stress to the birds well being. Just my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Birdbuff

I always thought it was illegal, I’m surprised that they even allow permits for such training. I thought that was the whole purpose of a game farm, for training and enjoyment, etc. I find it irresponsible to continue such an activity in the name of training. It just isn’t fair to a migratory bird or any other game bird. I think it adds unneeded stress to the birds well being. Just my opinion.

---

That’s just my point...they don’t give the permits out... only for dog trails. All your points are valid and the exact reason it IS ILLEGAL to pursue game birds out of season without the proper permit!!! Birds flying back north after a long migration south and winter already have lower levels of body fat, fat that is very critical for the females who then lay eggs and sit on nest receiving very little nutrients during the process. Add being harassed on the way back north can deplete already low levels and can easily spell disaster for that bird let alone her young that year. Guys on here complaining about low numbers of birds which in turn will eventually dwindle hunter numbers. It’s not rocket science.........just science!!!

Duckslayer pretty much slam dunked this.

Don’t worry, any minute now you will be told why you are wrong....

Well, that escalated quickly...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duckslayer

Last year some emails were submitted to the ask a CO about running pointing dogs in the spring and the answer is cut and dry.......it is considered hunting and therefore illegal unless one apples for and receives a permit from the MNRF, they basically only give permits to those running field trials. Would love to know if anyone has received a permit other than for a field trial? I assume lots of guys on the forum have these permits considering there are threads about this subject including pictures of how messy it can be in the spring. I’ll include the email correspondence I received in this thread.

---

I've posted the same comments in the past as well. My game officer contact at CWS has assured me that there are no permits issued for dog trials on woodcock or ruffed grouse. My main issue is the fact that we've lost almost 50% of the continental population of Woodcock since the sixties and the population continues to decline . Putting ANY additional stressors into the pot does not make any sense at all. Putting the fact that it's illegal to hunt these birds in the spring, I can't believe that anyone ethically thinks it's OK to do this given the status of the population. Another decade and you'll see these birds SARA listed . Probably "at concern" for another decade, then progressively dropping to endangered eventually. Glad I won't be here to see that day. Saying that you stop once the birds are on eggs is a weak argument. How many dog trainers are aware that woodcock are on the nest, right now incubating eggs ?(at least on my property in Fenelon Falls on April 2nd this year. Peak peenting and dancing has already passed at my place). How many are still running dogs on the birds this week?

So if I have this right from what I read here, we have a moderator in this forum who is in effect promoting an illegal activity and the Admins are OK with this? What next, FMM as a new mod? This forum has hit a new low from the looks of it. Pretty sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dilly

Duckslayer pretty much slam dunked this.

Don’t worry, any minute now you will be told why you are wrong....

---

You'd think at this point a Mod would chime in with sage and responsible advice for the people who are considering harassing the birds out of season.... ahhhhh,, never mind.

The thing is the MNR has missed the mark on this as with most things they do. Instead of doing something sensible like they do in Michigan they just live up to the name Bantario. In Michigan training on wild birds is permitted year round except during nesting season usually around April 15th to July 7th. There are years the nesting starts a little earlier but for the most part by the time it is shutdown we aren't finding any birds on nests.

Some information in this thread is incorrect. The MNRF issues Train and Trial Permits. I have personally applied for years and received them, and never held a field trial. They are Train and Trial permits for the closed season.