ofah snubs fishncanada show

the ofah refused to give their point of view on the restocking efforts of atlantic salmon into lake ontario without having others on their side to beat on daryl cronzy and others who say the numbers show its not worth the money being spent. for the millions of fish put in only 100 at the most have been counted returning, opg has been giving to the ofah 1.25 million i believe each year and the lcbo also gives plenty which both are our tax dollars. the ofah is a media giant and i look at them and say like all companys once they get to big they stop listening to the people who use the outdoors. since 2008 its alot of money put into a restocking effort with no results where it could have been put into stocking of rainbows, chinnook, browns into lake ontario, and possibly trying to helping out the walleye numbers in scugog as it sees heavy fishing pressure and brings money in from a large area of anglers who use it. lets get on with a program which will show results .

This ought to get interesting.

Questions.
- if no StA would the LCBO, OPG others be kicking millions each year into more than just the fish?
- if no StA would streams that are worth saving, be getting attention?
- if no StA would classrooms be learning about the importance of cold water systems?
- if no StA would streams that are benefitting from tons of media attn, be seeing CTV, City, plus tons more out on stocking days, tree planting days, when Chinnies are hand bombed more

Fact of the matter is, some streams that are in a lot of trouble given urban sprawl, and it's now ramping up as the beast crawls East, are getting attention.

Attention and more, no one cared enough about for the last 30 years. What's that worth? That's something many don't seem to want to add to the "balance sheet", talk about, when they look at just one part of it. Everyone has an agenda, including those who champion Pacific, steelhead, and or Rivers that aren't lake O tribs.

and something none seem to want to answer. If the plug is pulled on the StA, what will happen? To the money to the media attention, to the public awareness, to kids in classrooms, to more, the the streams, whose head waters are the Oak Ridges Morraine.

lose those streams, and few fish of any species will call them home. People have had 30+ years and until StA came along there was jack being done, let alone the LCBO and more....

do you beleive in coincidence?

JBen,

Chronzy had a big diatribe on that a few years back when he still had his fishing show. He made note of the fact that the Americans have been quite successful with the stocking program, but Ontario hasn't. He suggested that maybe Ontario should consult the powers that be in Michigan to determine what they can do differently. Lake Superior State University in Sault Ste. Marie Michigan has been studying the Atlantic Salmon for some and even have un underwater camera in the St. Mary's River. They have a viable run in the St. Mary's River along with an open season and a possession limit of 1. This may not seem like much, but the St. Mary's River below the compensating works is infested with lamprey.


His conclusion was that the people doing the stocking in Lake Ontario should talk to the people in Michigan to determine what the Lake Ontario group are doing wrong or quit trying altogether. He just might have been on to something.


You can throw all the money you want at a problem, but it is how that money is used that makes the difference. Look no further than our current provincial government.


Roe+

Roe,
Im not taking a firm stance one way or the other.

Theres more to the story, than simply Atlantics, or Steelhead or Pacifics. Basically Roe, all Darryl cares about is the stocking/hatchery space its taking up (good points i might add). And he does have a warm place in heart for the hatcheries/programs (or lack in grey bruce).

Theres more to weigh, when doing a "cost analysis" than simply the fry.
Have you looked east in the last 10 years? The urban sprawl? You know theres airport coming right? on top of the tens of thousands of people just in (last 10 yrs), and coming in? Theres really no where else for the city to grow.

Tell me, how much attention was directed that way in the past 20? Jack squat.

Today?
I don't believe in coincidence.

Lose those streams, and few fish of any species will use them. Pull the plug on StA and will the LCBO, OPG and others keeping handing over millions? What about the public awareness? The class rooms of kids planting trees, raising fry? More? Aka whats the real cost all told.

I'm not talking about losing the funds, I'm referring to making better use of them. I seethe urban sprawl you're talking about every time I go to the cottage. Do you think it's any different than the Credit River or Bronte Creek as well as the streams/rivers in Niagara? I live 5 minutes from the Credit River, north of here, the City of Brampton is rapidly expanding towards the Credit River. It already flows through what is basically the centre of Mississauga.

Chronzy actually went further than that criticizing the methods used to plant and imprint fish vs. the way is ways done when he was involved in the Georgian Bay stocking program. One of his main criticisms has been the release of fry off the Lake Ontario break walls as apposed to planting them further upstream where they can imprint. They get a good return of Atlantics in the St. Mary's River vs. what they are seeing in Lake Ontario. Why the difference? What is being done to correct it?

There are a number of issues at play here.

Roe+

This isn't the main aspect of this discussion now but since it is in the title… How is this related to the Fishin' Canada show?

Im guessing various stakeholders didn't want to have a sit down.

Roe. There are those that want to see the plug pulled, thier arguememt is simply poor, bad, brutal returns. Fair enough.

Understand when you get what you want, you can kiss a lot more goodbye. You might regret it.
Somethings are very hard to weigh. Better use of funds? Well first off, a lot of the funds are corporate. So um...what's the problem? When was the last time a company or 3 or 4 handed over millions? But more so, in this day and age when the MNRs budget is going in the wrong direction, what price are you willing to put on all the spin off benefits it's generated...kids in classrooms, media? Kids who tomorrow might be the ones that......More.

theres more to consider than simply the hatcheries and stocking, and the pure numbers of returns

JBen,

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not advocating pulling the plug, what I'm trying to say is something is wrong with how they are doing this and somebody should sit down and take a close look at what their doing and try to see how that differs from other more successful programs. If you're going to spend all of that money, get some bang for your buck, otherwise in time your stakeholders/financiers will lose interest, move on to more successful endeavors and the stocking program will die. I don't think that is in anyone's best interest

Roe+

First of stocking any type of fish where there is successful spawning is detrimental to the so called wild fish , it has been proven many times that when you combine wild fish and hatchery fish you bring the genetics down . The Ganaraska gets no stocking of atlantics and i have seen fish caught that are close to 8lbs from that river so where do they come from, having these fish grow up in a class room is a publicity stunt, does it work sure does thats all my daughter talks about. As far as the river getting cleaned up from the money well the CA are supposed to manage that and they are now doing a much better job of that especially the GRCA . The only way to make this work is to imprint them at the stream from eggs, putting them in the river at different sizes does not work. In my opinion and documented for instance the chinooks and cohos are successful spawners where average is 60% wild and in cobourg and port hope nearly 100 % are wild, in-fact it is so successful the mnr is no longer going to clip the hatcher fish as it shows that there program is not working, next time your out in the lake fishing,check every fish you catch see if it clipped because the program has lived its life and people are making good money raising fish for the governement and want the program to continue . Its time the money be taken out of raising fish and spent on protecting the fish we have now (law enforcement )

Fellas,

It has been touched on here, but not put plainly. I was not in favour of the atlantic stocking programs. For as long as I can remember we have been getting little to no return. BUT, and here is the big BUT. Steelhead are doing very well. It is a lot easier for big corps to jump on board with a "Save the Majestic and Native Atlantic" program, than it is for them to get on board with a bunch of introduced species like steelhead and pacifics. Our streams are cleaner, they are showing promising returns of naturals and overall we have a pretty stable fishery. You can thank the atlantic salmon for a portion of that, and you can thank all the corporations that have donated money, and all of the volunteers that have expended their time! So we're not seeing a strong return of Atlantics?? SO WHAT, most other species are thriving in part due to the efforts expended on behalf of the Atlantics. Thats OK in my books! And if you think the conservation organizations don't realize this, your kidding yourself! They are spending the cash knowing full well the other species are benefiting, and they realize they wouldn't stand a tinkers chance in hell of getting the same amount of funding for introduced species. You can count me as a new supporter of the Atlantic Salmon rehabilitation efforts!