Speaking of game changers

What do you guys think of this? The Smokeless guys are probably saying "ya, 300 yards, who cares", ha ha, but this is a pretty big deal with a more standard propellant.

https://cva.com/product-line/paramount-rifle/

150gr of BH209, 2400fps with a 280gr 45 cal bullet.

I wonder if you ran a sabot and some 357 bullets what would this do, would be nice and flat for sure, as long as you have the velocity to open up those bullets properly.

A 225gr or 250gr partition 0.358 bullet at 2500fps from a muzzleloader, hmm.

The video list a feature called 'bullet guiding muzzel."....what the heck is that ???? HaHa..

Nice looking rifle and fills the demand for a longer range accurate Black Powder ML. Be interesting to see how it compares to the Remington Model 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader at 300 yds.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The video list a feature called 'bullet guiding muzzel."....what the heck is that ???? HaHa..

Nice looking rifle and fills the demand for a longer range accurate Black Powder ML. Be interesting to see how it compares to the Remington Model 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader at 300 yds.

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Would be, talking about a 50 cal vs a 45 cal though, so depending on the bullet used and if a sabot or no sabot I am sure there would be a bunch of variation.

We should just win the lottery and buy them all, put in some real world testing :)

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Originally Posted by Fox

Would be, talking about a 50 cal vs a 45 cal though

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Essentially both still shoot .45's (one conical one saboted) at velocities in excess of 2300fps. Fairly even playing field. Unless you want to agrue a conical is more accurate than saboted bullit :)

Note: Heads up...I read those Powerbelt ELR bullets requires a special loading jag ($12 US) that has to be ordered in.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/cva-p...ip-ac1722.html

Very impressive results, they even hit the target panel once at 735 yds..:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHGvDypVvcM


edit add: interesting to note the comment that the scope ran out of EL adjustment at 37 min for a 600 yd target

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Essentially both still shoot .45's (one conical one saboted) at velocities in excess of 2300fps. Fairly even playing field. Unless you want to agrue a conical is more accurate than saboted bullit :)

Note: Heads up...I read those Powerbelt ELR bullets requires a special loading jag ($12 US) that has to be ordered in.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/cva-p...ip-ac1722.html

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The BC of the bullet has a lot to do with it, if the sabot has no impact. I have not seen what 45 cal bullets were planned for the Remington but if they have similar BCs and similar weights then obviously they would have similar results, even recoil, which is claimed to be part of the reason for the 45 cal in the CVA. CVA had to have partnered with Powerbelt on this as they only compare to full bore Powerbelt bullets.

The 50 cal Remington has a 1 in 26in twist and the CVA has a 1 in 22in twist. Based on bergers twist rate calculator if you run a single sabot in the 45 down to 357 with a 250gr partition at 2500fps you will have a slightly unstable bullet. If you use the double sabot in the 50 then your stability is worse.

I am not sure how long the Aerotip bullet is but it seems like they may have designed this gun just for Powerbelts.

Meh

280 grain at 2400 is ok

280 at 3200 would be better!

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Originally Posted by Fox

I am not sure how long the Aerotip bullet is but it seems like they may have designed this gun just for Powerbelts.

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That's what the ad (post #1) says:

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Paired with PowerBelt’s ELR bullets, which were specially designed for the PARAMOUNT®, this barrel can produce incredibly tight groups at ranges previously thought unreachable for a muzzleloader.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The video list a feature called 'bullet guiding muzzel."....what the heck is that ???? HaHa..

Nice looking rifle and fills the demand for a longer range accurate Black Powder ML. Be interesting to see how it compares to the Remington Model 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader at 300 yds.

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Here is the big question though, has anyone actually seen these things hit well at 300?

What I’ve noticed with the BP ml is that even if they can use the max charge a lot of time it’s spray at 100.

If these guys could figure out how to get a good ES bullet, say .3 G1 BC moving even 2000 that actually had adequate rotation shot out of a very good consistent barrel it would be a dependable 300 yard gun.

It would look like this;

Attachment 39606

My hunting load is this;

Attachment 39607

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

Here is the big question though, has anyone actually seen these things hit well at 300?

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There are a few video's out there...this guy is shooting the 280gr ELR (.45) pushed 2300 ft/sec by 140 gr of BH209 out to 400 yds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ41DerFeT8