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Near the centre of my big city a man owns 17 acres of bush land. OFF his property on the east side is a city park, on the north side are stores , on the south side is a baseball diamond, on the west side is a hospital.
This man is shooting coyote and deer with a cross bow. Is this legal?
What do the Municipal bylaws say about firearm discharge?
Sharon, I would check the town bylaw, it may be on their website. I know where I live the bylaws usually allow bow hunting under certain conditions in town such as minimum acreage and written permission from the owner.
Thanks for your help guys.
Maybe he has permission from the Chief of Police. :)
https://london.ca/by-laws/discharge-firearms-bows-pw-7
Sharon, yes he can, with 17 Acres, If he's property is located in the areas in schedule "B"( Anything outside of the shaded grey area). Since you did not provide his property location under schedule A or B, we can not answer your question. Have you looked at the map which goes along with that by-law? If not look at the map and see if his property is in an area that is shaded solid grey. If the property is anywhere in the shaded area, Discharge is prohibited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
If he's on his own property,he might be legit as long as his property isn't included in the municipal no-discharge area. In our municipality,there's two separate designations. Yours may be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
I checked the map, firearms/ crossbows can not be used there. How far can a cross bow go and do damage- not necessarily death , but damage to a person/animal?
Its not the crossbow that is the problem its the bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Just having a bit of fun Sharon
Deliberately aimed expecting a kill shot,about 50-60yds. Accidental discharge at high angle can go 100yds.+, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Mercy. 100 yards would hit the park or the hospital grounds. I don't know what to do about this. If anything.
I'm sure he isn't pointing his crossbow up in the air and firing bolts just for fun. If shooting at an animal on the ground its going to bury in the ground a few feet past it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Survey:
Would you report someone breaking the law with a gun or cross bow or not?
He may not even know he's doing something illegal..leave a note (anonymous) in his mailbox, he might appreciate the heads up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
I agree with Mike. It's the neighborly thing to do to give him a chance. If he ignores you,report him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
with all due respect - just mind your own business - unless you feel personally threatened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
You are aware that rifle bullets can go many miles and still kill, this is why we take precautions while hunting, with anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
In the US they have many archery seasons inside city parks, in Kemptville Ontario they have an archery season right beside 2 golf courses, nothing unsafe about it.
Maybe depends on the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
This guy is hunting 17acres of wooded property and not bothering anyone so if it were me I wouldn't lose sleep over what he is doing unless it directly affected me. :)
Some of these urban wood lots hold massive amounts of deer and huge bucks. Can't say I blame him for hunting there... lol
Agreed. Live and let live. Lots of things Id like to say to lots of people that will just cause me grief in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
I saw a good meme the other day and it said: "The next time you are thinking of reporting your neighbor for having too many people over for Thanksgiving, do yourself a favour and go in the kitchen and have a big glass of milk. You know why? because milk is good for your teeth. You know what else is good for your teeth? Minding your own business"
If there's been anybody who has lost their life from a deer vehicle collision in that area. I would say nothing.
Are you people giving the guy a pass, for breaking the law, because he is a hunter? Would you be as inclined to overlook, any other dangerous, law breaking activity? I think that all hunters should want a fellow hunter to follow all pertinent discharge laws, to prevent giving us all a bad name.
I didn't know bow hunting was a dangerous activity. Maybe I should stop bowhunting and take up bowling or golf! LolQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Bow hunting is not dangerous if done right. If he is disobeying the discharge laws, is he doing it right? No. Hence what he is doing is dangerous. And against the law. Do you as a responsible hunter ( I assume you are), want to be grouped in with him? Because if something tragic happens , that is what the press and non-hunting public will see.
Cry me a river Mr Virtue. Do you report on yourself when you speed?
Bowling? GOLF..? :eek: You know how many wrist, shoulder and elbow injuries there are every year from bowling? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
Ask an ER nurse or an EMT about golf and head injuries... Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire.:rolleyes:
Straw man theory. Redutio ad absurdum = reduction to absurdity. Pray tell, what does speeding have to do with , 'dangerous use of a firearm' ? Could he not be charged with that offence? If someone is doing that , why would any reasonable person, let alone a fellow hunter, and gun advocate, not want him reported, ie. stopped.
Dangerous use of a firearm .....Um...no!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Lol! True story. I tried golfing once and seen a wack load of deer. I asked the course owner if I could set-up a tree stand on the 18th hole after he closed for the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
Sadly it was a no!!... :)
Could....... CC. (RSC, 1985, c. C-46 ) Look up , 'dangerous us of a firearm'. What he is doing certainly falls under that Criminal Code of Canada , statute. Describes what he is doing perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Except that a bow is not a firearm......Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
It took all of a ten second search to find out that is false, in Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
You better spend a bit more time......Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Nope . If it is used while hunting, in Ontario it is considered a firearm. Is he not hunting?
It's amazing how things are so oblivious to you.
Considering the reporting of both acts can result in having one's license removed for unlawful dangerous use, that makes it comparable.
You pretend you're some hollier than thou crime stopper by shaming others opinions.
Sharon wouldn't have asked "to or not to" if she didn't think there was going to be a difference of opinions.
Absolutely, and I am giving mine. Based on the CC of Canada, and the Ontario hunting regulations. Heck if the municipality forbids discharge in that area , he is a poacher. Should we now not report poaching?
Ok..., Dangerous Use, the offence you posted, is a CC offence (federal). Hunting is regulated by Provincial statutes. The definitions of “firearm” are not interchangeable. Why do you think you don’t need a Firearms Licence to have a bow ??Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
The survey is now closed. :) Thank you for your opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
According to the Ontario Hunting Regulations, a crossbow or any bow for that matter, if used for hunting is then considered a firearm. As some say often on here.......... 'read the regs'.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
You are correct! Back to the Dangerous Use offence you posted.....a bow is not a firearm for purposes of CC offences.....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
So, given your rationale, a person needs a Firearms Licence to possess a bow??? I don’t think so !!
According to the Ontario Hunting Regs. they can ALSO be charged with a CC offence. It is in the regs. book look at it. Mike drop......
Reading, and understanding what you have read, in what context, are two very different things......best pick up your mic again !!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
It says so specifically, right there on the same page, under the definition of a firearm. Next paragraph.
Hahaha !!!! You better stick to trolling ! Your understanding of the law sucks !!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I’ll help you....maybe....check out the definition of “firearm” in the CC.....
Here it is for you....
firearm means a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm; (arme ŕ feu)
I am just informing you of what the regs say. We are in Ontario and follow Ontario hunting regulations, and they specifically say that you maybe charged under the CC of Canada as well as Ontario laws. Do you not follow that obvious possibly of CC charges if they mention it in the Ontario regs... Okay lets take it down a notch. Even if they do not charge him under the CC, In Ontario he could be charged with 'hunting recklessly', a possible 25 thousand $ fine.... that is one expensive deer. That he won't get to keep.
Wrong again....the mere fact that he is discharging a bow in an area where discharge bylaws prohibit it, will not constitute a charge of Careless hunting. He will have committed at best, a bylaw infraction. If he takes a shot and the bolt hits a car or something in a parking lot, or flys through a playground, then that’s a totally different matter. There must be more involved than just a discharge...Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I don’t know what paragraph in the Summary you are referencing, but I suspect it deals with the new regulation changes dealing with having to produce a Firearms Licence or other form of accreditation, when hunting with a gun....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Ok I want to know who this guy is!!! If he needs help filling his tags I have a crossbow and am willing to travel!!! :)
Don't know. I am referring to the portion of the Ontario Hunting regulations, that determined that any bow is a firearm, while used for hunting in Ontario, and thus you can be charged under the C.C. for firearms offences. Don't get upset with me, I am just reading the regs. It clearly states that a C.C. charge is a possibility.
Even if he is hunting in , ' no discharge zone' , contrary to municipal discharge regulations? Would that not make you a ....poacher? I feed the deer over my back fence, that is over looking conservation lands. You want a shot at the nice 6 pointer that visits nightly? Forbidden zone. Same deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter
What Reg. What law, what authority ???? You keep babbling about the regs say you could be charged with a CC offence....which one ?? I’ve told you what that likely relates to....post the section!!! Remember, the Regs you keep harping about are ONLY a summary.....not the statutes.....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
You are way out of your league !!!
Now i know your just messing with me. Ontario Hunting Regulations. You know the law we must follow when hunting in Ontario.. Please read the section, on firearms , it includes all bows while hunting, it is self explanatory. Your beef is with whomever wrote them , not me. When it comes to hunting and guns, I always follow the law, because I don't want to lose my privileges. That is correct, my privileges, not my right.
There is no offence of.....”poaching”.....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I don’t have to read anything about “firearms” and what is or is not a “firearm”! I’m pretty sure I’m well aware !!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Obviously not, or you would be aware any bow is considered a firearm in Ontario, when being used for hunting. The regs state that if it is being used improperly in Ontario , you can be charged with firearms offences under the CC of Canada.
pretty certain anyone can buy a crossbow or bow but you need a license and pass courses to attain a firearm
That, we can agree on. However, you posted a specific CC ( that’s Criminal Code) offence of Dangerous use of a firearm. I’m telling you, that charge cannot be laid, as a bow is not a “firearm” under the CC......You apparently cannot grasp the difference between a Provincial Act( FWCA) and the CC ( Criminal Code ).Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Exactly... hence no requirement to have a firearms licence, for a bow, because a bow is NOT a firearm for CC and FA regulations....Quote:
Originally Posted by marky.mark
People that were prohibited from possessing firearms for 10 years on impaired convictions, continued on hunting legally with bows.
ME? Then why does it say you can be charged with CC offences , in the Ontario Hunting regs? In Ontario regs it states that while hunting with a bow in Ontario, it is considered a firearm? I did not write them.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I already answered that ! Post the specific verbiage, in the Summary. Up until this year, COs did not have anything to do with the Firearms Act. Now, a Firearms Licence or other proof of accreditation must be produced upon demand by a CO, along with your Outdoors Card and applicable hunting licences.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
So, now if you don’t have a firearms licence or other accreditation to allow you to possess a GUN, you are liable to other criminal charges. If you read the legislation this all relates to, you will see the MNRF now mentions GUN, not firearm, due to the different definitions between criminal law and provincial law....
I'd give up Rick. You are clearly correct, but its not sinking in for him.
And I would either mind my own business as well or if you really feel the need to do something do what MikeP suggested and let him know.
Yea, I’ve just been feedin’ the troll !!!!!lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
I'm waiting for him to blame Harper or Harris for writing regulations that too hard for Liberals to understand :)
This doesn't apply in that situation. See below.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
A firearm offense can't be laid is true. Sect 219(1) (a) certainly does.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I believe the CO,s are enforcing the Firearms Act for the second year now,but who's counting.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Kinda strange with gun loving Conservatives running the Province,never had this nonsense with Kathy Wynne.
For a Crim Neg charge, there would need to be a whole lot more than just a discharge bylaw offence.....Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Just back away slowly, and hope it burns out soon..:sad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
I know you did not intend this...don't blame yourself. :thumbup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Strange isn't the word for it. Some things make you go h-m-m-m-m.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
With the proximity of a park,even a near miss could land him in court,bylaw or no bylaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Yep. Let the heavy weight battle with the nitwits. They need to be properly spanked every once in awhile.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
What you are confusing is the local and municipal "Discharge of Firearms" By-Laws which have changed and still are changing in the last 5 years. DoF bylaws have included the classifications of bows, arrows, pellet, BB guns and slingshots in most "descriptions of a firearm.
The definition in the CCC - firearm. firearm means a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm
FROM City Of Ottawa - Discharge By-Law: "firearm” means any class or type of gun or other firearm including a shotgun, rifle, airgun, spring-gun, longbow or crossbow.
So cities and municipalities have granted themselves more authority to charge people with "Firearms Offences", this contravenes the CCC, however, it doesn't matter to them if it is illegal or not... You see the objective is to hem you up in court, and justify more authoritarian responses, because of "illegal firearms discharge", when if fact it is NOT, IAW CCC.
You responses are a perfect example of the uneducated firearms owners who harm our own industry, passion and sport.
Another uneducated response - "or you would be aware any bow is considered a firearm". SO why do they have a H1 and H2 license classification on Ontario - my point on your education, and ability to spread false lies..... is..laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Aside from what is the definition of a firearm, lets move on from that point. There is the question in the original post.... Post 1 and Post 7.. What would you do if you knew it was happening? I am totally surprised at the number of supposedly law abiding hunters and sportsmen , who said MYOB. You know someone is dangerously breaking the law , close to a school and a hospital and you want the original poster to mind her own business. Are you kidding me? What is the thought process of an ethical sportsman, (person), who thinks that is the correct approach to the problem? Please don't make about me , but justify your answer of, MYOB.
Because you are dismissing the law and switching the conversation yet again, to avoid, is classic of you. The MYOB saying, is being neighbourly, obviously if Sharon feels threatened (like I would), I would call the police as well. I bet you would call the police if you seen more then 10 people at a gathering? Or am I wrong? Those people who do this should just MYOB.
Your feelings and mantra over this, can be compared this way!
The people hiding Anne Frank were breaking the law.
The people who killed Anne Frank were following it.
Which one are you?
The Nuremburg Trails provided the case law issue that is followed today!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I think the general response being that he's on his own wooded 17 acres hunting with crossbow, he may not know its illegal like others said. Or maybe he knows its illegal and maybe knows not to many people are gunna notice him or see him at all hunting his own wooded acreage with a crossbow.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
None the less not sure what I would do in this situation. As others have said there are some big deer/ lots of deer sometimes in these patches cause not to many people bother them espeically when they aren't supposed to be hunted in these areas.
Maybe do as Mike said and leave a note, see where that gets you first.
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Leave a note to someone you don't know, informing them that they are breaking the law? To the original question, the rational , recommended approach should have been..... 'notify the proper authorities and let them deal with it'. Not MYOB...End of story.
You don't have the right to say "end if story" ....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Areas still exists in this country were you help your neighbours. It's part of the fabric of our society that, granted, has dwindled in big urban centres but away from them, you don't call the cops on your neighbour lightly. Common decency would be, like I said, leaving an anonymous note to give him a heads up would be the civil thing to do. He may have no idea he's breaking the law.
If it's disregarded, then you should call the TIP line before someone gets hurt.
Can't always call the authority over little by law infractions it just takes valuable resources away from the bigger problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Shooting a bow is the least of people's problems or concerns. Is he putting lives in danger ? Is he a threat to society ?
Bigger fish to fry fish .
Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk
If the answer she received to the original question was, ' notify the proper authorities', it would have been the, 'end of story'. She is in London, no small town, the likelihood of her knowing that person is almost zero. Big city, different rules than in some hamlet, where you know your neighbor. I have the right to say whatever I want, even 'end of story', if it breaks no forum rules.
For now.... under your good friend JT's permission
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
No, with Meg's permission. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by line052
The 'immediate danger' thing is questionable, 17 acres is a long way for an arrow to fly unobstructed. Is the hunting taking place directly adjacent to the park, or hospital? Are those spots the backdrops of the shooting lanes? That I would agree is reckless, potentially dangerous, and warrants a visit from officials.
How do you know there is hunting taking place? Was there trespassing involved to make this discovery? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
If we spent all day reporting every by-law infraction we witnessed, there would be no time for anything else.
One other thing, I'm not familiar with Londons By-Laws but is there an exception of discharge for hunting purposes?
Not knowing exactly everything there are a few exceptions that might make the fella legal..
3.8 Agricultural land-exception
Section 2.1 of this by-law does not apply so as to prohibit the discharge of a firearm or bow for the destruction of diseased, nuisance or sick animals, or for the slaughter of animals for food by the owner, occupier or authorized agent of the owner or occupier, of any land designated in the City of London Official Plan for agricultural uses.
or
3.13 Exception-parcels of 4.05 Hectares or more-bow
Section 2.1 of this by-law, as it applies to the discharge of a bow, does not apply so as to prohibit the owner or occupier of a parcel of land of 4.05 hectares (10 acres) or more located within the area set out in schedules 'A' and 'B' of this by-law, or a person or persons carrying such owner or occupier's written permission on their person, from discharging a bow for the purposes of hunting or target shooting.
Sharon seeing as this is your thread I believe you'd be well within your rights to request the mod close this thread down now seeing as it's been taken over by our resident trolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Cheers
She can just delete it...it will go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
Agree, you can't hunt in vaughan but just down the street from me there's HUGE acreage, always wanted to ask the guy to go sight in the crossbow there [emoji6].Quote:
Originally Posted by ride.lift.shoot
King city I believe it says you cannot discharge firearms but bows are allowed? I'm not 100% on that one tho. Gotta be familiar with all the local bylaws.
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I've asked the mods to CLOSE it; I don't believe in deleting people's thought - out posts. Must say I have learned a lot. :) LOTS of good info there. Definitely rev'd up my boring "covid" week.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I'm not going to tell you what I have done ; it might keep some awake. :)
OK, I'll bite. Here is how I read this By-Law, seems pretty simple to me:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Attachment 41204
S.2.1 Speaks to the prohibition of discharge of firearms or bows within the areas designated in Schedule "A", and further described in Schedule "B", except as authorized by this By-Law
Section 3.13 goes on to read as follows:
Attachment 41205
Discharge of bows on parcels greater than 10 acres is permitted, with written permission, within lands designated in Schedules "A" & "B"
Sounds like this guy is well within his rights.
If this has been covered already, I apologize. I tried to read through these 9 pages of BS arguing but I couldn't take it. Hope this helps.
Vaughan has zero discharge. No gun, bow, not even a sling shot. Technically King city still allows firearms though zones have fairly recently been revised however good luck getting premission.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
I had the exact same reaction. I wonder how many actually read the bylaw as linked. I also interpreted it the same way you did. I think he is legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassboy19
The bylaws in my area are written with similar exceptions. I had mentioned this as a possibility in post #3 but maybe others had missed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassboy19
Oh no I know haha was more of a joke, I see a couple guys hunting turkey in king city with bow every now and again. Vaughan won't even let you use a slingshot shot i believe lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers
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Haven't checked in a while but I beleive king city requires an township permit for turkeyQuote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
Whys the hunter hunting in sight of others if he's got 17 acres?
My guess is he doesn't know that he's breaking the law.
Ridiculous you can't bow hunt when you own that much property.
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My first question is how do you know what he is up to on his own land.
It's ok with whatever rout you have chosen to take . In reality it's not anyone's business for what you did or you didn't do. [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
The choice is yours . I won't loose any sleep over it [emoji12].
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My first question.....How do you know it is his land? Maybe the true owner is unaware it is going on?Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
YES, and we know which side she prefers..Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I got infractions for posting links to news stories about Democrats in the states saying that it's time to prevent Conservatives from being allowed to work or have rights...
They sounded just like WW2 German Propaganda, but I got whacked on the PP.
She obviously believes in free speech AND following the rules of this forum. You know the line , don't cross it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Pretty simple, quit stirring the pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Ok. Thrall ( yes thrall not troll) please explain how preventing people from posting links and options she does not agree with, is showing she believes in free speech?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
IMO, as suggested earlier, give the person a heads up, if it persists report him.
Each and everyone one of us has broken the law, ie speeding, we have done this knowing the consequences. At times we may have unknowingly broken the law, and we have had the option of pleading ignorance or dealing with the consequences. We are adults, as is this person.
Many questions pop to mind, ie is he licensed, does he have and apply tags, or is he a poacher on top of illegally using a crossbow. does he keep the pelts, the questions go on; but if he is reported on the illegal use all others will fall in line.