Carbon Tax increases NOT put on hold

Looks like everything is going to cost more; from gas for the car, fuel to heat our houses and businesses and to increases in transportation and manufacturing costs.

And in a time when we're being told to spend our saving to help climb out of a collapsed economy.

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The current price on carbon translates to Canadians paying roughly an extra 2.3 cents per litre of gasoline, which is set to rise to an extra 12 cents per litre under the $50 per tonne pricing in 2022.

Government officials speaking on background on Friday said the increase in the carbon tax after 2022 would translate to an increase of roughly 27.6 cents per litre from 2022 costs.

That means Canadians can expect to pay roughly an extra 39.6 cents per litre of gasoline by 2030.

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Unbelievable..

In the name of preservation of human kind to lower the effects of climate change, I’m all for it. BUT!!! I’m only for it if other countries are doing their fair share to curb the climate crisis.

We must pay the other countries share. It’s the only way to stop climate change. Chyna has over 100 coal plants. Pay up. Why only 15billion.

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

In the name of preservation of human kind to lower the effects of climate change, I’m all for it. BUT!!! I’m only for it if other countries are doing their fair share to curb the climate crisis.

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Totally agree everyone needs to work together if not it won't work.

And we are not the country to lead the contributions to it. We can help but only to an extent where it doesn't effect everyone in a negative way. . These bills will add up when it will effect pretty much most of the market plus some.




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Sooooo, if we start to produce less carbon the tax goes away??? Not a chance. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER TAX, it just gives green-minded people a feel good warmth but does nothing to solve any pollution problems. It is a pocket liner for the government to spend anywhere they want, and some very large pockets they are becoming.
John

It will cost the companies of big manufacturing to pay huge then everything goes up for the exception of a few jobs.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/car...plan-1.5837709

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Yup Trudeau trying to chase away more Jobs, makes our Liberals on here proud. They love seeing people lose jobs.

Nothing to do with "carbon" and everything to do with "taxes." The Liberals are just peeing down everyone's legs while telling them "it's raining."

Justin time for dough will bankrupt us.
When Russia, India and China starts the program then we can follow the lead.
What a joke.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Nothing to do with "carbon" and everything to do with "taxes." The Liberals are just peeing down everyone's legs while telling them "it's raining."

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They sold this carbon crap by telling the public the Carbon tax was neutral and you would get it back with your Tax return. And people believed them.

I do my own Tax with NetFile (Turbo Tax) ...when I applied for the Carbon Tax Refund on my return, my running tally increased $30 ...NOT the $307 they said we would receive. I went back, double checked and triple checked....$30 .....more Lies from the Liberal Party of Canada.

Anyone surprised?-another pipe dream which will cost us hard working Canadians a bunch.....with ZERO effect to anything-except our pockets.

The world has 8 billion people,-Canada with 40 million WILL have impact? not a chance.............pulling wool over people's eyes, and standing up for interests of others then our own is appalling and sad-at least

who is voting for this fool..I have yet to have anyone admit they voted liberal yet here we are in this mess..we cant get that silly sock drama teacher out of office soon enough..

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Originally Posted by kokes

who is voting for this fool..I have yet to have anyone admit they voted liberal yet here we are in this mess..we cant get that silly sock drama teacher out of office soon enough..

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Well, there’s at least two Koolade drinkers around here!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Well, there’s at least two Koolade drinkers around here!

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Bingo, you win. It's been such a nice time reading here since I found the dingbat button.

Do they not need a majority to just push this through? Otherwise with minority status, don’t they need another parties support?

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

Do they not need a majority to just push this through? Otherwise with minority status, don’t they need another parties support?

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Make no mistake, the NDP are running this country !!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Well, there’s at least two Koolade drinkers around here!

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I know you're a pretty good hunter Rick but flushing out another one with that line, was pretty damn good. Cheers

So....carbon tax huh? Anyone know where the money they collect for this tax is going to go? Its gonna add up to billions you know. Wondering how many designer socks one could purchase with that amount?

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Originally Posted by grumpygeezer

So....carbon tax huh? Anyone know where the money they collect for this tax is going to go? Its gonna add up to billions you know. Wondering how many designer socks one could purchase with that amount?

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To build charging stations wind ,solar energy and electronic cars the future without gas emissions.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Make no mistake, the NDP are running this country !!

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Better the NDP than the Conservatives in the pockets of big oil messing the planet up.

Yeh the NDP will vote with the Liberals and the Green party and probably the independents like Jody, who will vote for them. This will represent the 2/3 of the Canadian population in this democracy, we will get it done especially now with Joe Biden in
the White House very soon.

Sunny days and clear skies.

Now of course China and India are chocking to death on their own fumes along with Vietnam so other countries are having to chip in and get off fossil fuels, it will be a win, win.

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Well, there’s at least two Koolade drinkers around here!

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You really need to get some more new lines, these this one is worn thin ,could it be dementia setting in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kokes

who is voting for this fool..I have yet to have anyone admit they voted liberal yet here we are in this mess..we cant get that silly sock drama teacher out of office soon enough..

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Well apparently a whole bunch of Canadians in the last election and by default a whole bunch more in October on the non confidence vote, hey I will let you into a secret ,I think some of the other 13,000 members on here might have also voted for them. LOL

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Originally Posted by fishfood

To build charging stations wind ,solar energy and electronic cars the future without gas emissions.

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Yep and all of those need lithium ion batteries to store the electricity. That's a huge amount of very damaging mining that pollutes like crazy. Then there's the energy used to make those batteries that last maybe seven years and then have to be stored somewhere and then replaced. Certainly not climate friendly. There's an off grid home with solar panels not even a mile up the road from me. His batteries cost $7000 and only last 7 years he tells me and then there's the maintenance costs with his two solar panels so in effect he's not saving anything over having hydro. Plus it cost him big time to build the small house with it's super thick walls, super expensive windows and crazy priced cook stove that he uses. The way I see it, it just screams virtue signalling "oh look at me, I'm not hooked up to the grid." Whoop de do.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

You really need to get some more new lines, these this one is worn thin ,could it be dementia setting in?

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No I don't believe that to be the case at all. Some people don't like to hear the truth nor can they handle the truth. That would be why they like to partake in tipping the kool-aid jug. I guess it help them believe that budgets balance themselves and sunny days are ahead. Sorta makes silly socks seem like a dealer he gives the weak and feeble minded the first taste for free and they enjoy it and the next thing you see they are lined up with there hands our waiting for their next hand out or chance to drink from the trough believing every word their liberal messiah tells them. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

You really need to get some more new lines, these this one is worn thin ,could it be dementia setting in?

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Well... if it quacks like a duck.........!

I find it amusing how closed minded the green thinkers are. Shut down oil and gas they say, yet not one of them has the intelligence to look around and realize every single thing needs old and gas to get to them! These people are clueless extremists! Every single thing in your house requires oil and gas, everything you eat, everything you do! Our laws force oil and gas usage!

And here they go, following this moron like sheep not a clue as to the cash grab they support, nothing more than a cash grab. It won't help a damn thing because the less fuel we use, the more China will ramp up to fill the void. This party in power is all about caring for people, helping those in need and equality yet they turn a blind eye to the workers in the oil and gas sector telling them they don't matter. These will be the first people to complain when their tesla hits a pothole on a deteriorating highway.

Alberta is being punished for being blue in the last election, make no mistake about it.

Are there things we could do better, absolutely! The problem right now is the current government is going about it all wrong.

For those that say Canada has the worst pollution per capita, I'm sorry but you are wrong, you are reading twisted news meant to further the current governments efforts. If one really looks into it they will find that the biggest polluters in Canada are companies owned by China and Brazil..... take those big players out of the mix and the numbers change dramatically.

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Ford's take on the scam.

Cost of living will go up 30 percent.

https://youtu.be/wjomWSjU2PM

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Well, there’s at least two Koolade drinkers around here!

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Actually from my PMs I can tell you that there is a lot more than you think. Most thank me for my efforts, and say that they just can’t be bothered arguing with people about politics on an Outdoors site.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Actually from my PMs I can tell you that there is a lot more than you think. Most thank me for my efforts, and say that they just can’t be bothered arguing with people about politics on an Outdoors site.

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That's a load of crap because you've have admitted to only posting that crap to 'get the boys riled up" and make the wife laugh.. which is why we know you are a Troll and have been for many years.

Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Actually from my PMs I can tell you that there is a lot more than you think. Most thank me for my efforts, and say that they just can’t be bothered arguing with people about politics on an Outdoors site.

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Disclaimer: this is not a personal attack.

Have to ask, if this is true why are almost all supporters of your way of thinking spineless cowards? Almost nobody stands beside you or behind you on your arguments or lack there of when fed the truth.

Do you not get tired of the sissies hiding in the wings that don't have the backbone to say something? It would all make you nothing more than a patsy to them.

Not a group I would want anywhere near me anyhow. Lol

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"And of course this kind of thing does not just happen in the United Kingdom. In Canada, it has been publicly admitted that the government uses paid trolls to warp Internet discourse. The following comes from Natural News…"

You’ve probably run into them before—those seemingly random antagonizers who always end up diverting the conversation in an online chat room or article comment section away from the issue at hand, and towards a much different agenda. Hot-button issues like illegal immigration, the two-party political system, the “war on terror” and even alternative medicine are among the most common targets of such attackers, known as internet “trolls” or “shills,” who in many cases are nothing more than paid lackeys hired by the federal government and other international organizations to sway and ultimately control public opinion.
Several years ago, Canada’s CTV News aired a short segment about how its own government had been exposed for hiring secret agents to monitor social media and track online conversations, as well as the activities of certain dissenting individuals. This report, which in obvious whitewashing language referred to such activities as the government simply “weighing in and correcting” allegedly false information posted online, basically admitted that the Canadian government had assumed the role of secret online police.

https://www.straight.com/news/482846...s-social-media

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Originally Posted by impact

In Canada, it has been publicly admitted that the government uses paid trolls to warp Internet discourse.

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That would make sense..Gilly and FC are paid by the Liberal Party of Canada to be 'Secret Squirrels' like Maxwell Smart ... sure would explain a lot...HaHa..

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Actually from my PMs I can tell you that there is a lot more than you think. Most thank me for my efforts, and say that they just can’t be bothered arguing with people about politics on an Outdoors site.

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Have to love these poor souls they still have not figured out why they keep LOSING ELECTIONS.

They have not figured out that with the NDP and the Greens we have 2/3 of the Canadian vote.

Don't worry about Mike the biggest troll on this forum bar none with some 22,555 posts of stale air.

Yup the silent majority is out there and it ain't Conservative.

Thank God the Canadian voters kicked the dictator Harper to the curb, otherwise we would be like the poor Republicans in the USA slowly going down the drain with their illustrious leader.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

That's a load of crap because you've have admitted to only posting that crap to 'get the boys riled up" and make the wife laugh.. which is why we know you are a Troll and have been for many years.

Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

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So posting something the majority does not agree with makes me a troll? Ridiculous. Why should I not post my opinions? You can, even though many of the posts , seem to be trolling those who vote Liberal. Sounds like censorship, of the opinions, that you do not agree with to me...... Again... 'Conform or be cast out', Rush , comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

I find it amusing how closed minded the green thinkers are. Shut down oil and gas they say, yet not one of them has the intelligence to look around and realize every single thing needs old and gas to get to them! These people are clueless extremists! Every single thing in your house requires oil and gas, everything you eat, everything you do! Our laws force oil and gas usage!

And here they go, following this moron like sheep not a clue as to the cash grab they support, nothing more than a cash grab. It won't help a damn thing because the less fuel we use, the more China will ramp up to fill the void. This party in power is all about caring for people, helping those in need and equality yet they turn a blind eye to the workers in the oil and gas sector telling them they don't matter. These will be the first people to complain when their tesla hits a pothole on a deteriorating highway.

Alberta is being punished for being blue in the last election, make no mistake about it.

Are there things we could do better, absolutely! The problem right now is the current government is going about it all wrong.

For those that say Canada has the worst pollution per capita, I'm sorry but you are wrong, you are reading twisted news meant to further the current governments efforts. If one really looks into it they will find that the biggest polluters in Canada are companies owned by China and Brazil..... take those big players out of the mix and the numbers change dramatically.

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So do you believe in global warming or have you been hiding under a stone with the rest of the other deep thinkers?

Do you watch the news and see forest fires in California and all over Australia, are the ice caps melting.

Do you really think this is coincidence.

How about the ozone layer did you believe there was a hole in it or was that another global conspiracy.

You understand that Canadians are living in an artificial world where fossil fuels are needed to survive, so I get that and also understand we are the biggest user's on the planet.

But does that not mean we should give up trying for a better way.

You guys are so upset about taxes and your grandchildren having to pay for them in the future, well there might not be a future for them period if we do not curb our use of fossil fuels.

Your argument with others is that China and other developing countries will still use fossil fuels so what is the difference.

Well maybe we should cut back on what we consume that feed's their market, the throw away society we have created cannot last.

They have just discovered MICROPLASTICTS in a women's placenta for the first time, if this isn't a wake up call nothing will be.

I respect their decision to not to engage. Sorry, but because to do not want to get in a verbal , political disagreement on the internet does not make you a spineless coward. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

And it can make them silent, as so many are, when "their" side goes off the rails.....As with say McGuinty/Wynne, and now JT.
And sadly, that silence, or apathy leads to people paying steep prices, or increasing polarization, and serious divisions within the electorate.

Rightly or wrongly. Do you care to deny
Alberta hates, has a serious hate on for the "libtards" in Ontario? Who don't give a crap
Rural Ontario, likewise doesn't think the same of the GTA for sticking their heads in the sand and not saying much between 2006-2016?

Gilroy, the *only* reason Trudeua is still in power is because of the GTA, who seem hell bent on propping up yet another brain dead, inept and corrupt government ( aka too many voteres in the GTA have lost their moral compass_)and the concentration of seats. And Quebec, who have more seats than their population warrants because that's written into the constitution.

Apathy is the devil.

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Originally Posted by JBen

And it can make them silent, as so many are, when "their" side goes off the rails.....As with say McGuinty/Wynne, and now JT.
And sadly, that silence, or apathy leads to people paying steep prices, or increasing polarization, and serious divisions within the electorate.

Rightly or wrongly. Do you care to deny
Alberta hates, has a serious hate on for the "libtards" in Ontario? Who don't give a crap
Rural Ontario, likewise doesn't think the same of the GTA for sticking their heads in the sand and not saying much between 2006-2016?

Gilroy, the *only* reason Trudeua is still in power is because of the GTA, who seem hell bent on propping up yet another brain dead, inept and corrupt government ( aka too many voteres in the GTA have lost their moral compass_)and the concentration of seats. And Quebec, who have more seats than their population warrants because that's written into the constitution.

Apathy is the devil.

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Assuming your right and I disagree of course that unfortunately is how our democracy works.

This election map which you could have brought up shows the real picture.

https://election.ctvnews.ca/how-cana...vote-1.4652484

So basically Canadians left leaning by the majority and right across the map.DO YOU DISAGREE?

Then please explain why no condemnation of the Ford, missteps. Many are upset about the provincial lockdowns. You don't like the path he is taking, but you will overlook it because he is a con.? Just saying 'at least he is not winn', is not an appropriate answer, and is setting the bar awfully low.

I’m guessing you didn’t bother to read your own link.

But the Liberals gained an advantage in Ontario, taking over 41 per cent of the vote and sweeping all 25 seats in Toronto. The party maintained its stronghold in the pivotal Greater Toronto Area, securing 24 of 29 seats – the same outcome as 2015.

As I said, a region that has lost its moral compass.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So do you believe in global warming or have you been hiding under a stone with the rest of the other deep thinkers?

Do you watch the news and see forest fires in California and all over Australia, are the ice caps melting.

Do you really think this is coincidence.

How about the ozone layer did you believe there was a hole in it or was that another global conspiracy.

You understand that Canadians are living in an artificial world where fossil fuels are needed to survive, so I get that and also understand we are the biggest user's on the planet.

But does that not mean we should give up trying for a better way.

You guys are so upset about taxes and your grandchildren having to pay for them in the future, well there might not be a future for them period if we do not curb our use of fossil fuels.

Your argument with others is that China and other developing countries will still use fossil fuels so what is the difference.

Well maybe we should cut back on what we consume that feed's their market, the throw away society we have created cannot last.

They have just discovered MICROPLASTICTS in a women's placenta for the first time, if this isn't a wake up call nothing will be.

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Take some time and read Apocalypse Never. You may find that most of your alarmist claims have been debunked by real science.

https://www.amazon.ca/Apocalypse-Nev...%2C1828&sr=8-1

Now a National Bestseller!

Climate change is real but it’s not the end of the world. It is not even our most serious environmental problem.

Michael Shellenberger has been fighting for a greener planet for decades. He helped save the world’s last unprotected redwoods. He co-created the predecessor to today’s Green New Deal. And he led a successful effort by climate scientists and activists to keep nuclear plants operating, preventing a spike of emissions.

But in 2019, as some claimed “billions of people are going to die,” contributing to rising anxiety, including among adolescents, Shellenberger decided that, as a lifelong environmental activist, leading energy expert, and father of a teenage daughter, he needed to speak out to separate science from fiction.

Despite decades of news media attention, many remain ignorant of basic facts. Carbon emissions peaked and have been declining in most developed nations for over a decade. Deaths from extreme weather, even in poor nations, declined 80 percent over the last four decades. And the risk of Earth warming to very high temperatures is increasingly unlikely thanks to slowing population growth and abundant natural gas.

Curiously, the people who are the most alarmist about the problems also tend to oppose the obvious solutions.

What’s really behind the rise of apocalyptic environmentalism? There are powerful financial interests. There are desires for status and power. But most of all there is a desire among supposedly secular people for transcendence. This spiritual impulse can be natural and healthy. But in preaching fear without love, and guilt without redemption, the new religion is failing to satisfy our deepest psychological and existential needs.

JB, 'As I said'....Just because you say something, does not make it so...... IMHO.....lol.

Only a person that's desperately living in denial or fantasy land, doesn't understand that in Federal elections Ontario is the "swing vote".

Only a person that's desperately living in denial or fantasy land. Doesn't remember provincial elections say after 2007.When things were becoming oh so obvious, like brain cramps and scandals, like job losses, hydro in rural Ontario. Vote buying of the GTA ( Can we not figure out why?) and Unions, etc, etc.

Only a person living in the GTA struggles to understand why so many Canadians litterly hate the "center of the Universe"....

Gord I'm guessing you missed the part where I said "when it's their side"...translation in plain English. Both sides are guilty????

I don't think Ford has onything on Mcguinty/Wynne/Trudeau though as yet...Do you?
And yes I am critical of him when its warranted...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So do you believe in global warming or have you been hiding under a stone with the rest of the other deep thinkers?

Do you watch the news and see forest fires in California and all over Australia, are the ice caps melting.

Do you really think this is coincidence.

How about the ozone layer did you believe there was a hole in it or was that another global conspiracy.

You understand that Canadians are living in an artificial world where fossil fuels are needed to survive, so I get that and also understand we are the biggest user's on the planet.

But does that not mean we should give up trying for a better way.

You guys are so upset about taxes and your grandchildren having to pay for them in the future, well there might not be a future for them period if we do not curb our use of fossil fuels.

Your argument with others is that China and other developing countries will still use fossil fuels so what is the difference.

Well maybe we should cut back on what we consume that feed's their market, the throw away society we have created cannot last.

They have just discovered MICROPLASTICTS in a women's placenta for the first time, if this isn't a wake up call nothing will be.

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Gilroy,

Most of what you have just stated had absolutely nothing to do with the quoted verbiage. It seems more like conversing with Billy and his talking points.

You are right, and as I previously stated, we should be cutting China out of our consumables and kicking them out of our mines. Question, what do you think would happen to trusty justy when he tells his main voter base, no new TV, phones, cheap Walmart crap?

This is why we need a phased in approach, we need to build our capabilities to make our own things, in house again. We need our own gas and oil to do so. We as a country can make it on our own, we have the resources and at least we could find the least polluting way of utilizing those resources and make something for ourselves. Instead, as a country we will shut our own people down and turn a blind eye to the crap other countries are doing and continue to support them financially. Out of sight out of mind, right?

Australia is no different, they pollute and burn coal like its going out of style.

As to living under a rock, I can own it if you can answer me a question of what is in your house, what do you use that does not rely on oil and gas!

As I said, we can do better, we should do better but taxation is not going to fix it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

So posting something the majority does not agree with makes me a troll?

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Problem is you don't post your opinions on anything, you contribute little to the content of any thread on any topic (95% of the time) . The only reason you post is to deliberately to be provocative and cause disruption and argument..that on social media is called Trolling.

Drop the idiotic provacative political based comments that identify you as a Troll and maybe we'll stop calling you a Troll.

Try contributing more constructive posts and maybe people will have a little more respect for your opinions and welcome the debate .

Lol just read your living in denial comment Gord.
So your saying the West doesn't hate Ontario? and specifically the GTA?
So your saying Northern Ontario ( which usually votes NDP) doesnt hate the GTA and hasn't talked about separation?
So your saying Rurual Ontario too doesn't now hate the GTA?

lmao, Im guessing you dont read these forums much, let alone anything that's not printed or aired from outside the GTA
:)

And why?
Well because, once again they are sticking their heads in the sand, just as they did 2006-2016. Maybe their heads are in the sand, because we can hope they are trying to find their morals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Take some time and read Apocalypse Never. You may find that most of your alarmist claims have been debunked by real science.

https://www.amazon.ca/Apocalypse-Nev...%2C1828&sr=8-1

Now a National Bestseller!

Climate change is real but it’s not the end of the world. It is not even our most serious environmental problem.

Michael Shellenberger has been fighting for a greener planet for decades. He helped save the world’s last unprotected redwoods. He co-created the predecessor to today’s Green New Deal. And he led a successful effort by climate scientists and activists to keep nuclear plants operating, preventing a spike of emissions.

But in 2019, as some claimed “billions of people are going to die,” contributing to rising anxiety, including among adolescents, Shellenberger decided that, as a lifelong environmental activist, leading energy expert, and father of a teenage daughter, he needed to speak out to separate science from fiction.

Despite decades of news media attention, many remain ignorant of basic facts. Carbon emissions peaked and have been declining in most developed nations for over a decade. Deaths from extreme weather, even in poor nations, declined 80 percent over the last four decades. And the risk of Earth warming to very high temperatures is increasingly unlikely thanks to slowing population growth and abundant natural gas.

Curiously, the people who are the most alarmist about the problems also tend to oppose the obvious solutions.

What’s really behind the rise of apocalyptic environmentalism? There are powerful financial interests. There are desires for status and power. But most of all there is a desire among supposedly secular people for transcendence. This spiritual impulse can be natural and healthy. But in preaching fear without love, and guilt without redemption, the new religion is failing to satisfy our deepest psychological and existential needs.

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I wish people would realize what You just stated.......alas the washing machine works Overtime( brain washing machine)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I respect their decision to not to engage. Sorry, but because to do not want to get in a verbal , political disagreement on the internet does not make you a spineless coward. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

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You are a real martyr, it sure is tough to say someone has backbone when they won't stand up for their beliefs. Discussions are healthy even if heated at times. There are things I will agree with you on at times and when it happens I'd be the first to say it.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

"As to living under a rock, I can own it if you can answer me a question of what is in your house, what do you use that does not rely on oil and gas!

If you read my post you would see that I agree that we , I am part of the problem but we should be able to find a better way.

So for the most part I like your last post and agree with you.

I think our problem in Canada is that citizens here have simply been brought up with to much.

Now I know that might piss off some people but its simply a fact. We have to much, we want to much.

Now I am not suggesting this as a solution just something for my fellow Canadians to ponder.

When I was a kid growing up back in Scotland we all had hydro meters inside our home's. The meter was on a clock ,you put your money into the receiver, turned the handle and your hydro came on in the home .After your time ran out your hydro went out.

Did we use energy SURE did we waste energy NO, because it was simply to expensive.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Problem is you don't post your opinions on anything, you contribute little to the content of any thread on any topic (95% of the time) . The only reason you post is to deliberately to be provocative and cause disruption and argument..that on social media is called Trolling.

Drop the idiotic provacative political based comments that identify you as a Troll and maybe we'll stop calling you a Troll.

Try contributing more constructive posts and maybe people will have a little more respect for your opinions and welcome the debate .

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Have a look at your own posts, almost every one on a non hunting topic and on a controversial topic.I know you fixated on your post count but get over yourself, your a troll plain and simple.

Anybody can read through your past threads and posts and see this for themselves.

Agree Girloy, and both you know, I will and am not afraid to agree with you guys when it needs to be said.

Quote:

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I think our problem in Canada is that citizens here have simply been brought up with to much.

Now I know that might piss off some people but its simply a fact. We have to much, we want to much.

Now I am not suggesting this as a solution just something for my fellow Canadians to ponder.

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and where do those Canadians you speak of live?
Coe Hill?
Lindsay?
The Bruce pennissula?
Chattam/Kent?
Timmins/Sudbury?
New Brunswick?
Nova Scotia?
Anywhere in Alberta outside the oil patch?


And how do they almost always vote these days?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Lol just read your living in denial comment Gord.
So your saying the West doesn't hate Ontario? and specifically the GTA?
So your saying Northern Ontario ( which usually votes NDP) doesnt hate the GTA and hasn't talked about separation?
So your saying Rurual Ontario too doesn't now hate the GTA?

lmao, Im guessing you dont read these forums much, let alone anything that's not printed or aired from outside the GTA
:)

And why?
Well because, once again they are sticking their heads in the sand, just as they did 2006-2016. Maybe their heads are in the sand, because we can hope they are trying to find their morals.

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I am living in the country from April to November every year and have done so for years.

I find very little credibility in what you are saying, I listen to the Moose Radio 97.9, they very seldom ever report GTA news.

I read the Bancroft Today newspaper and they almost never cover GTA news or make comment on folks from the GTA.

I hunt with local guys in Coe Hill, do they like Trudeau, no but they do not use the word hate either.

Do rural people hate people from the GTA, not that I have found, they have always been warm and friendly, I see them at the Legion, Church dinners, Canada day celebrations ,birthdays and even funerals.

You do understand JBEN today that half the rural residents are blow in's from the GTA area.

This year I meet two families from Alberta, I did not find any hate shown towards me.

Northern Ontario has no possibility of survival without the money generated in the Toronto Stock Exchange,especially mining stocks.
Alberta is in the same boat, we can get oil and gas from other places in Canada without Alberta and we could get any amount of Hydro from Quebec if we needed it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oaknut

Disclaimer: this is not a personal attack.

Have to ask, if this is true why are almost all supporters of your way of thinking spineless cowards? Almost nobody stands beside you or behind you on your arguments or lack there of when fed the truth.

Do you not get tired of the sissies hiding in the wings that don't have the backbone to say something? It would all make you nothing more than a patsy to them.

Not a group I would want anywhere near me anyhow. Lol

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You would be very surprised at the PM's I have had over the years. If you look at the total 13,000 members on here and this was at one time considered a Conservative bastion of a forum, would you not get to thinking ,how come so many of the members are not directly against Trudeau or even the spending.

Now I do not agree with a great many things that Trudeau has done or is doing ,but instead of asking what we can agree on everybody just assumes I agree with Trudeau. That is simply not so.

However in totality and after being a Conservative for the first half of my voting life I simply find I know longer have much in common with their policies.

I'm honestly shocked.

Just google rural/urban divide then. Narrow it down or add Ontario if you like.
I cant be bothered to go to places and copy/paste thousands and thousands and thousands of comments made by normal people either. Maybe you might recall the shyte storm back in April with respect to cityots leaving the GTA for cottages? And I don't mean here, I mean out there........Go google articles from any newspaper back then......

Google any Alberta based paper. The Calgary Herald. Read a op-ed on just this topic of Carbon Taxes....Then read the hundreds of comments if you want an idea of what they think of you. Lmao a good friend of mine moved to Calgary a year ago. She never really understood the hate....Now you should read some of her comments about things.....

Have you never heard people refer to citiots? Who do you think they are referring to? Or "The center of the Universe"?


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ntario-voters/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle7080204/

Lol I could literally spend a week copying stuff for you and still only scratch the surface.

Even policy makers......
https://on360.ca/policy-papers/measu...-rural-divide/

lol, and do mean that in a kind, pleasant way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

I'm honestly shocked.

Just google rural/urban divide then. Narrow it down or add Ontario.
I cant be bothered to go to places and copy/paste thousands and thousands and thousands of comments made by normal people either. Maybe you might recall the shytestom back in April with respect to cityots leaving the GTA for cottages? And I dont mean here, I mean out there........

Google any Alberta based paper. The Calgary Herald. Read a op-ed on just this topic of Carbon Taxes....Then read the hundreds of comments if you want an idea of what they think of you. Lmao a good friend of mine moved to Calgary a year ago. Nevre really understood the hate....Now you should read some of comments about things.....

Have you never heard people refer to cityots? Who do you think they are referring to? Or "The center of the Universe"?


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ntario-voters/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle7080204/

Lol I could litterally spend a week copying stuff for you and stil only scratch the surface.

Even policy makers......
https://on360.ca/policy-papers/measu...-rural-divide/

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ntario-voters/

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Well of course your going to find this stuff because the narrative suits you, but the so called hate is not directed at ME none of these folks knows me so why would they hate a person they have not even meet.

What they might "hate" is the politicians and what the politicians are doing.

I have no hate for anybody least of all folks I have never meet and I cannot even fathom a person living with so much hate.

We do see it in the USA so clearly it exists, but it seems both here and there one group are the haters and the other is not.

I guess its up to you which group you belong to.

"you". It's a figure of speach. Allow me to rephrase. you, me, us. And while yes they do hate the Liberal party, they hate Liberal supporters just as much. If not more so. And that means....And why do you think that might be. Well with respect to the West it goes back to the NEP. And with respect to rural Ontario I just don't know what to say.

"One group hates the other more". Perhaps, but consider the times certain parties have been in power. You cant say for example that during Harper's tenure people on the left didn't hate people on the right. Nor can you say that doesn't exist with Ford, albeit it's pretty mild given Ford hasn't really crushed anyone yet, though he is beginning to. have you forgotten Harris?Nor you can you deny that people that support the right aren't often called neo con nazis, zenophobes, racist, un-educated rednecks. especially when it comes to Trump and his supporters. Hopefully I dont get slapped on the wrist again.....:)

Because it fits my narrative or you don't like hearing the truth?
Read the comments
https://financialpost.com/commoditie...ompetitiveness

Why do you think so many despise Unions then?

And lastly read that policy paper I linked.
Heres another
The urban/rural divide and a more inclusive Canada (irpp.org)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well of course your going to find this stuff because the narrative suits you, but the so called hate is not directed at ME none of these folks knows me so why would they hate a person they have not even meet.

What they might "hate" is the politicians and what the politicians are doing.

I have no hate for anybody least of all folks I have never meet and I cannot even fathom a person living with so much hate.

We do see it in the USA so clearly it exists, but it seems both here and there one group are the haters and the other is not.

I guess its up to you which group you belong to.

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Yep the people will not hate the people only the corrupt government lol.

It's horrific what's happening now in the states the people are not hating the people but they are hating the government. More March's today and what I think it's going to turn ugly soon. Listening to some comments today one guy said they have been calm so far but can't guarantee it will stay that way.

When I was in northern ont this summer was talking to a lady she was upset about people from the city coming into wawa lol. We talked a while then I eventually told her I was traveling from the GTA , doesn't she put her mask [emoji1787]. We still talked afterwards had to wait in line at the grocery store for 30 minutes. She didn't hate me but she feared where I came from.

People are friendly they may have different opinions and views but most can still get along with one another .





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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Take some time and read Apocalypse Never. You may find that most of your alarmist claims have been debunked by real science.

https://www.amazon.ca/Apocalypse-Nev...%2C1828&sr=8-1

Now a National Bestseller!

Climate change is real but it’s not the end of the world. It is not even our most serious environmental problem.

Michael Shellenberger has been fighting for a greener planet for decades. He helped save the world’s last unprotected redwoods. He co-created the predecessor to today’s Green New Deal. And he led a successful effort by climate scientists and activists to keep nuclear plants operating, preventing a spike of emissions.

But in 2019, as some claimed “billions of people are going to die,” contributing to rising anxiety, including among adolescents, Shellenberger decided that, as a lifelong environmental activist, leading energy expert, and father of a teenage daughter, he needed to speak out to separate science from fiction.

Despite decades of news media attention, many remain ignorant of basic facts. Carbon emissions peaked and have been declining in most developed nations for over a decade. Deaths from extreme weather, even in poor nations, declined 80 percent over the last four decades. And the risk of Earth warming to very high temperatures is increasingly unlikely thanks to slowing population growth and abundant natural gas.

Curiously, the people who are the most alarmist about the problems also tend to oppose the obvious solutions.

What’s really behind the rise of apocalyptic environmentalism? There are powerful financial interests. There are desires for status and power. But most of all there is a desire among supposedly secular people for transcendence. This spiritual impulse can be natural and healthy. But in preaching fear without love, and guilt without redemption, the new religion is failing to satisfy our deepest psychological and existential needs.

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Pretty interesting guy in this one video he talks a lot about nuclear which I have not ever been against, however nothing on cars
and home heating and so forth, but I will definitely be reading more on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Yep the people will not hate the people only the corrupt government lol.

It's horrific what's happening now in the states the people are not hating the people but they are hating the government. More March's today and what I think it's going to turn ugly soon. Listening to some comments today one guy said they have been calm so far but can't guarantee it will stay that way.

When I was in northern ont this summer was talking to a lady she was upset about people from the city coming into wawa lol. We talked a while then I eventually told her I was traveling from the GTA , doesn't she put her mask [emoji1787]. We still talked afterwards had to wait in line at the grocery store for 30 minutes. She didn't hate me but she feared where I came from.

People are friendly they may have different opinions and views but most can still get along with one another .





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Very true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

You understand that Canadians are living in an artificial world where fossil fuels are needed to survive, so I get that and also understand we are the biggest user's on the planet.

.

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Do you have any idea how much Healthcare and medical supplies need oil to produce and manufacture.
Could you explain how Healthcare supply chain be produced without oil?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Do you have any idea how much Healthcare and medical supplies need oil to produce and manufacture.
Could you explain how Healthcare supply chain be produced without oil?

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I do not need to explain anything as I did not make any assertions to the contrary?

back to carbon taxes.

Obviously the West is going to go ballistic. And call it whatever you want Gilroy, deny it however you want, they are not going to be feeling very friendly towards the East.
When you can take the TTC, Go Trains to work. Walk to a corner store, spend 5 cents in gas going to Loblaws or Home depot. How do you think Rural/Small Town Ontario is going to react...Especially given Propane and Oil are more expensive than Nat Gas, as is Hydro....

Curious if you think the rest of Ontario is going to feel any better towards what's known as the red Toronto, and the center of the Universe.
Does that mean they are going to lynch you when your talking to any personally?

And with respect to the US, where dynamics and electoral maps are much the same. Powder keg on a slow burn. Been saying that for a decade or more.
Violence erupts in DC as counter-protesters fight Trump supporters - Insider
I know you wont but you should google articles about the cottage debates from papers out of the Kawarthas, Bracebridge etc back in the spring. Read the comments.Its not just a few fringe people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I do not need to explain anything as I did not make any assertions to the contrary?

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You sure did on post#35, that i quoted you on. I'd like to know how our medical and health care supplies will be produced if you claim we can live without fossil fuels? Is there and alternative for producing medical supplies if we move away from fossil fuels?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Do you have any idea how much Healthcare and medical supplies need oil to produce and manufacture.
Could you explain how Healthcare supply chain be produced without oil?

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I hate to be the bearer of this news but this is the future of healthcare delivery.
The 4th Industrial revolution.
They will not fund the hospitals any further.
Healthcare via 5G, AI and the push of a button.
Can't be cured? Hit the kill switch.

The new normal!

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3345312.3345471

https://www.lifespan.io/news/bacteri...drug-delivery/

As much as I love the squabbling, it serves no purpose. I think all parties have well established their positions. I mentioned on another thread the idea of accountability. I think our time and energy would be better suited to create a true system of accountability for our government. Whether Wynn/mcguinty/Ford/Trudeau and others the like, screwed up or not, should be decided by an independent panel. There needs to be real consequences. I’m not thrilled that my tax dollars will be paying the pensions of retired mp/mpps that cost us money or created problems. The time is now and the need is real. If we don’t get some kind of accountability system the ship will never right itself, because it never has to.

Also this “A. Vs. B” thing going on is what the real problem is. We’re too busy arguing against each other’s views instead of collaborating for the greater good. It’s not the Canadian way. I’m not a habs fan, but if they win the cup, I’m not going to get upset and cause a stink about it.

Ad it mentioned in the other thread BB. The polarization and divides are getting so much worse. Is that the policitians fault, or is it because they aren’t held accountable. What do they all care most about.

Votes?
Can we all read maps?

/points to things I’ve been highlighting.

Impact. You mentioned propaganda earlier.,I hope we all read the news last month about the military?

It’s up to us to stand up for what is right. Somewhere along the line democracy has lead to the gravy train it is known to be now. This polarization is proof of the broken system. There is no honour in stealing from your neighbour, or your constituents, or your country. We can continue to be the lemmings they believe us to be, or we can change the norms by demanding more. Representation is nothing without the base on which it stands.

I don’t have a clear direction, but I know when somethings broken it needs fixing. We can all agree over the years we’ve slapped enough lipstick on the pigs. Time to pull off the bandaid and make tough choices for the greater good. It’s time to work together to find solutions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

You sure did on post#35, that i quoted you on. I'd like to know how our medical and health care supplies will be produced if you claim we can live without fossil fuels? Is there and alternative for producing medical supplies if we move away from fossil fuels?

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No WRONG AGAIN you really need to read my posts and not read into them what you want to hear. So I said the opposite:

"You understand that Canadians are living in an artificial world where fossil fuels are needed to survive, so I get that and also understand we are the biggest user's on the planet.

But does that not mean we should give up trying for a better way."


So does the words "I get that mean anything to you".

I understand we are living an artificial existence in Canada, with six months of the year in the cold we need to burn fossil fuels.
But like I said in the next line down which you chose not to read:

"But does that not mean we should give up trying for a better way."

So nowhere did I claim we can live without fossil fuels, but we should be trying for a better way.

You really are bad at trying to ascribe words to a person that they did not actually utter ,this makes you look both foolish and uneducated at the same time.

Which brings up the old adage "its hard to have a battle of wit's with an unarmed man"

At a cost the majority of society can't afford .



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

It’s up to us to stand up for what is right. Somewhere along the line democracy has lead to the gravy train it is known to be now. This polarization is proof of the broken system. There is no honour in stealing from your neighbour, or your constituents, or your country. We can continue to be the lemmings they believe us to be, or we can change the norms by demanding more. Representation is nothing without the base on which it stands.

I don’t have a clear direction, but I know when somethings broken it needs fixing. We can all agree over the years we’ve slapped enough lipstick on the pigs. Time to pull off the bandaid and make tough choices for the greater good. It’s time to work together to find solutions.

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Well your not going to find any consensus with folks on here who are preoccupied with wedge gun control issues, conspiracy theories about Covid, depression issue's over debt load and so forth, I'am afraid they are otherwise engaged.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

At a cost the majority of society can't afford .



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Can the majority of society afford more fires, flooding, polluted water, polluted air, cancer, one way or another mother nature will exact her price, the question is can you pay her.

A lot can be accomplished once everyone speaks plainly and to the point without nitpicking. Common ground can always be found, if both parties are truly willing to try.

My biggest pet peeve during any election is the need to bash your opponent. It’s disgraceful. Anyone with dignity can rely on their platform without the need to belittle their opponents. Let your character and ideas do the work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birdbuff

A lot can be accomplished once everyone speaks plainly and to the point without nitpicking. Common ground can always be found, if both parties are truly willing to try.

My biggest pet peeve during any election is the need to bash your opponent. It’s disgraceful. Anyone with dignity can rely on their platform without the need to belittle their opponents. Let your character and ideas do the work.

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Yeh well we know what party does that, the Conservatives in Canada and Republicans in the USA.

The attack ad,s do actually work but in the opposite fashion.

When the Con,s attacked Justin on his HAIR, completely turned off the electorate, did the Con's really think a Canadian would base a vote on a guy's hair. So they insulted educated Canadians and played to their base of uneducated Canadians. IMHO.

When the Con's attacked Justin over the Black Face issue, every one of my friend's who are minorities stated that the Con's were overdoing it and thought they were being ridiculous and went right ahead and voted him in again. Thanks...

Or when they attacked Chrétien for his deformity. Shameful.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Yeh well we know what party does that, the Conservatives in Canada and Republicans in the USA.

The attack ad,s do actually work but in the opposite fashion.

When the Con,s attacked Justin on his HAIR, completely turned off the electorate, did the Con's really think a Canadian would base a vote on a guy's hair. So they insulted educated Canadians and played to their base of uneducated Canadians. IMHO.

When the Con's attacked Justin over the Black Face issue, every one of my friend's who are minorities stated that the Con's were overdoing it and thought they were being ridiculous and went right ahead and voted him in again. Thanks...

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Well people often vote on the superficiality of something. They don't want to vote for austerity, hard work, etc. so basically truth and will vote for the liar, woman groping, elitist that actually smells of socialistic authoritarianism with the nice hair instead of the boring guy that says we have to work to get ahead.... and in that we end up with world opinions in the toilet, deficit doubled, coverups on SNC, ethics etc. , first PM to violate ethics rules, lies on more topics to list so yes they voted for PM black faced silly socks with the good hair a second time. So yes people often vote for appearances and perceptions, to think so shows another ideological blind spot.

So yes they vote for appearances (anyone with any marketing knows that) or if not then they morally chose to vote for a corrupt admirer of dictators that grops reporters, breaks ethics rules and blocks police investigation and makes payment to terrorist but attacks vets etc. and his treatment for women...


“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices” - George Orwell


Ethically people should have a responsibility to make the world better but there are those that want to destroy and are narcissistic elites or even evil.... so what basis do you feel people should vote for a liar woman groper that praises tyrants and dictatorships and says French are better than other Canadians.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igrMJ9L4po

So of course people vote on appearances instead of truth... they don't want or like the truth.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

So, run along little LIbEral supporter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

You really are bad at trying to ascribe words to a person that they did not actually utter ,this makes you look both foolish and uneducated at the same time.

Which brings up the old adage "its hard to have a battle of wit's with an unarmed man"

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Maybe educate yourself, here is a great lesson
https://youtu.be/wjomWSjU2PM

Figure it out yet?

Lol geez
And no one on the left has ever attacked, or ran attack ads against either Ford. Lol do you two live in Ontario?????

Or Harper. And JT certainly doesn’t use wedge issue like guns. Or fear mongering and attacking Scheer. JT had never referred to people on the right as Xenophobes or racist. Has never made fun of an indigenous protester.

Lmao half my liberals friends make fun of Trumps hair. The Orange man.

Lol.
Yes yea only your side is bad, and my side shats rose petals.

biggest difference I see is that cons usually don’t pretend to poop rose petals, don’t virtue signalling and pretend to be holier than thou

The inconvenient truth is that there are just too many people on the planet for the earth to support our wasteful ways.

Ain’t that the truth.

And here we are moving mountains, throwing untold numbers into financial ruin. To yet again, try to cheat nature.

”just saying”.
One day the save the planet at all cost crowd might actually realize. They are the problem and doing exactly what the planet and nature don’t want or need?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mosquito

Well people often vote on the superficiality of something. They don't want to vote for austerity, hard work, etc. so basically truth and will vote for the liar, woman groping, elitist that actually smells of socialistic authoritarianism with the nice hair instead of the boring guy that says we have to work to get ahead.... and in that we end up with world opinions in the toilet, deficit doubled, coverups on SNC, ethics etc. , first PM to violate ethics rules, lies on more topics to list so yes they voted for PM black faced silly socks with the good hair a second time. So yes people often vote for appearances and perceptions, to think so shows another ideological blind spot.

So yes they vote for appearances (anyone with any marketing knows that) or if not then they morally chose to vote for a corrupt admirer of dictators that grops reporters, breaks ethics rules and blocks police investigation and makes payment to terrorist but attacks vets etc. and his treatment for women...


“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices” - George Orwell


Ethically people should have a responsibility to make the world better but there are those that want to destroy and are narcissistic elites or even evil.... so what basis do you feel people should vote for a liar woman groper that praises tyrants and dictatorships and says French are better than other Canadians.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igrMJ9L4po

So of course people vote on appearances instead of truth... they don't want or like the truth.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

So, run along little LIbEral supporter.

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Now I don't think this Liberal supporter is going any where as long as we have to keep watch of the Con's.

Your hard working, austere Mr. Harper is like all the rest of the Corporate licking types, he gives them tax break's and Corporate Welfare, allows them not pay taxes in Canada with their off shore accounts and then he gets rewarded with sitting on a few comfy boards with big salaries, while you get to pay your taxes.

Now I know your guys are upset at losing at the polls, but your probably still hurting from that beat down in the boxing ring that Justin gave that wife beating Conservative Senator, what's his name Patrick Brazeau. Hardly a hair out of place. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuSpZ3_5pTc

Patrick had to get his little pony tail cut off for losing that fight. LOL

Yes Justin the hero of women's rights and defender, its enough to make a guy swoon.

The people at West Point grey sure loved him.

Gilroy.
My former company specialized in tax avoidance. In the end, German regulators seized the company for tax avoidance.

Should I tell you how many times Paul Martin was in our office? Should I tell you OTPP was a major share holder?

Let’s look at “today”.
I’ll start with SNC. Finish with 240 billion that’s gone to companies as handouts, JT and the Liberals are desperately trying to sweep under the rug.

Give it rest, you don’t have a leg to stand on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Maybe educate yourself, here is a great lesson
https://youtu.be/wjomWSjU2PM

Figure it out yet?

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Well Doug is lying through his teeth as usual especially on the environment. Like Harper he went to de regulation and destroying any rules that stood in the way of big oil, except for Doug is big developers, he scrapped the protection of species under the Environmental Protection Act, his latest assault is against the Conservation authorities.

So I suggest you might want to be like me, drive less, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle, grow some of your own food and do your part to help the environment. A carbon tax is a user pay tax, your going to pay one way or the other ,when your home roof blows of in a Tornado, or your basement gets flooded, take your pick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Lol geez
And no one on the left has ever attacked, or ran attack ads against either Ford. Lol do you two live in Ontario?????

Or Harper. And JT certainly doesn’t use wedge issue like guns. Or fear mongering and attacking Scheer. JT had never referred to people on the right as Xenophobes or racist. Has never made fun of an indigenous protester.

Lmao half my liberals friends make fun of Trumps hair. The Orange man.

Lol.
Yes yea only your side is bad, and my side shats rose petals.

biggest difference I see is that cons usually don’t pretend to poop rose petals, don’t virtue signalling and pretend to be holier than thou

---

The election results speak different ,even in the USA Biden acted like a gentleman while Trump tried to be the bully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well Doug is lying through his teeth as usual especially on the environment. Like Harper he went to de regulation and destroying any rules that stood in the way of big oil, except for Doug is big developers, he scrapped the protection of species under the Environmental Protection Act, his latest assault is against the Conservation authorities.

So I suggest you might want to be like me, drive less, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle, grow some of your own food and do your part to help the environment. A carbon tax is a user pay tax, your going to pay one way or the other ,when your home roof blows of in a Tornado, or your basement gets flooded, take your pick.

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But you do understand that you are in an ok financial situation to do this right?


Many many millions of people are not in a position for the cost of living to go up.

Would you like to buy me a more fuel efficiency vehicle? I have a large V8 engine the price was affordable with some help.

Please explain how the people hanging on by a thread can afford this?

It won't only be the carbon tax increase it will be all of them yes more taxes are coming it's the only way to pay of this debt . Interest rates are going to rise and almost a million people took a 60 thousand dollar loan to survive. Like mentioned some will be able to afford it others wont be so lucky .


How does this help the millions who live in poverty already by paying more? The millions hanging on by a thread how do you expect them to survive.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Gilroy.
My former company specialized in tax avoidance. In the end, German regulators seized the company for tax avoidance.

Should I tell you how many times Paul Martin was in our office? Should I tell you OTPP was a major share holder?

Let’s look at “today”.
I’ll start with SNC. Finish with 240 billion that’s gone to companies as handouts, JT and the Liberals are desperately trying to sweep under the rug.

Give it rest, you don’t have a leg to stand on.

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"Wilson-Raybould has said that despite the pressure she felt, she did not believe what transpired was illegal.

Dion himself suggested there's not enough evidence to suggest an obstruction of justice.

"The fact that Ms. Wilson-Raybould was not directed to intervene likely prevented the occurrence of actual political interference in the matter but does little to assist Mr. Trudeau," he wrote.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...alin-1.5014271

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

So I suggest you might want to be like me, drive less, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle, grow some of your own food and do your part to help the environment. A carbon tax is a user pay tax, your going to pay one way or the other ,when your home roof blows of in a Tornado, or your basement gets flooded, take your pick.

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Again with the climate alarmism that has been debunked by real science.

Gather round and witness the virtue signaling liberal supporter in his natural environment of logical inconsistencies. They made their money in the system they now despise and now you get to make the sacrifice so they can feel better.

What part of SNC and corporate welfare did you not understand.?
Bombardier?
your the one bringing up the past and Harper instead of focusing on the present.

As for the US election.
What part of the left calls peoples names, uses attack ads, and fear mongering as well do you not understand?

And with respect to the US election results. Thank god, enough centrist and republicans found their moral compass and turfed him before the damage got too large and bad.

Can you say the the same of the L here?

[QUOTE=fishfood;1136071]But you do understand that you are in an ok financial situation to do this right?

Q. Pray tell me why you think I am in a ok financial situation to do this.


Many many millions of people are not in a position for the cost of living to go up.

R. Probably lots including me, my pension is going up less than 1% next year, but my grocery bill will be up more than 6%. Not to mention all the other taxes I pay, property tax will probably go up 3% next year.

Would you like to buy me a more fuel efficiency vehicle? I have a large V8 engine the price was affordable with some help.

R. No you can save your money and buy a second hand small vehicle just like me.

Please explain how the people hanging on by a thread can afford this?

Q. Maybe your question to them is, why are you hanging on by a thread. I could be hanging on by a thread if I ate out every other day, smoked cigarette's, bought expensive booze, took vacations every year, bought new vehicles, bought new furniture.
I don't do any of these things that is why I am not hanging on by a thread.

It won't only be the carbon tax increase it will be all of them yes more taxes are coming it's the only way to pay of this debt .

R. There is nothing new about taxes and nothing unexpected.

Interest rates are going to rise and almost a million people took a 60 thousand dollar loan to survive.

R. I am sure interest rates will rise but it will not be in the short term. I know of nobody that has taken a 60 thousand dollar loan.

Like mentioned some will be able to afford it others wont be so lucky .

R. It has nothing to do with luck ,its got to do with operating a budget and keeping to it. If you do not have the money why are you spending money you do not have.

How does this help the millions who live in poverty already by paying more?

R. Where do you get these figures of million who live in poverty.

The millions hanging on by a thread how do you expect them to survive.

R. The present Government is not responsible for this, the Covid is the culprit and when the Government wants to help the population and incur debt they get crucified any any event.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Yes Justin the hero of women's rights and defender, its enough to make a guy swoon.

---

Paying a female student 2 million non-disclosure agreement over a sexual relation while teaching.
Is that what you consider a hero of women's rights and defender?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Again with the climate alarmism that has been debunked by real science.

Gather round and witness the virtue signaling liberal supporter in his natural environment of logical inconsistencies. They made their money in the system they now despise and now you get to make the sacrifice so they can feel better.

---

Maybe you don't get the telly up your way but those fires in Australia are real, they are real in B.C. they are real in California.

Fort Mc Murray not only got a devastating wildfire but a year later got a devastating flood event.

The ice caps are melting at alarming rates and you can write here that "climate alarmism that has been debunked by real science."

No actually the real scientist agree " Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists (97–98%) support the consensus on anthropogenic climate change, and the remaining 2% of contrarian studies either cannot be replicated or contain errors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

What part of SNC and corporate welfare did you not understand.?
Bombardier?
your the one bringing up the past and Harper instead of focusing on the present.

As for the US election.
What part of the left calls peoples names, uses attack ads, and fear mongering as well do you not understand?

And with respect to the US election results. Thank god, enough centrist and republicans found their moral compass and turfed him before the damage got too large and bad.

Can you say the the same of the L here?

---

I very much doubt that any Republicans voted him out, they are hanging onto him like rats on a chunk of cheese.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

Paying a female student 2 million non-disclosure agreement over a sexual relation while teaching.
Is that what you consider a hero of women's rights and defender?

---

You need to do your research on your sources of fake news. This one was put out by the Buffalo Chronicle.

Failed Fact Checks

Is New York State about to ban cigarette sales to combat the novel coronavirus? – False
Canada’s national newspaper was not barred from publishing a scandal involving PM Trudeau – False
In 2001, Justin Trudeau left his teaching job at the West Point Grey Academy after having a sexual relationship with either a student or a student’s mother. – Unproven
“Mitt Romney has been asked to lead Health and Human Services in Biden administration.” – False
Did mob boss Joey Merlino, also known as “Skinny Joey,” help Joe Biden win Philadelphia by getting him 300,000 fraudulent votes? – False
Overall, we rate The Buffalo Chronicle Questionable based on far-right-wing bias, a complete lack of transparency, promotion of propaganda/conspiracy theories, and several failed fact checks. (D. Van Zandt 5/2/2019) Updated (11/18/2020)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-buffalo-chronicle/



Source: https://buffalochronicle.com


So basically fake news put out by this publication with fire being fanned by the CONSERVATIVE PARTY and election interference from a right wind American Publication on the eve of a Canadian Election.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...-law-cant-stop

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well Doug is lying through his teeth as usual especially on the environment. Like Harper he went to de regulation and destroying any rules that stood in the way of big oil, except for Doug is big developers, he scrapped the protection of species under the Environmental Protection Act, his latest assault is against the Conservation authorities.

So I suggest you might want to be like me, drive less, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle, grow some of your own food and do your part to help the environment. A carbon tax is a user pay tax, your going to pay one way or the other ,when your home roof blows of in a Tornado, or your basement gets flooded, take your pick.

---

Doug is lying through his teeth....lmao. Very obvious the truth hurts when the name calling from the left is always the answer...lol.
Maybe Kathleen Wynne would do a better job, oh wait she lost so bad the last election the liberals lost party status in Ontario ...:o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Maybe you don't get the telly up your way but those fires in Australia are real, they are real in B.C. they are real in California.

Fort Mc Murray not only got a devastating wildfire but a year later got a devastating flood event.

The ice caps are melting at alarming rates and you can write here that "climate alarmism that has been debunked by real science."

No actually the real scientist agree " Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists (97–98%) support the consensus on anthropogenic climate change, and the remaining 2% of contrarian studies either cannot be replicated or contain errors.

---

Those fires are not due to climate change they are due to poor forestry practices which leaves too much fuel on the forest floor which eventually leads to out of control fires. Not to mention the arson.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ozens-missing/

As for the 97%

From the article

"Think about how many times you hear that 97 percent or some similar figure thrown around. It’s based on crude manipulation propagated by people whose ideological agenda it serves. It is a license to intimidate."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexeps...h=3d6c0aa23f9f

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Those fires are not due to climate change they are due to poor forestry practices which leaves too much fuel on the forest floor which eventually leads to out of control fires. Not to mention the arson.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ozens-missing/

As for the 97%

From the article

"Think about how many times you hear that 97 percent or some similar figure thrown around. It’s based on crude manipulation propagated by people whose ideological agenda it serves. It is a license to intimidate."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexeps...h=3d6c0aa23f9f

---

Give me a call when your house burns down or gets flooded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 73hunter

The inconvenient truth is that there are just too many people on the planet for the earth to support our wasteful ways.

---

BINGO 2 to 3 Billion too many of us

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

Doug is lying through his teeth....lmao. Very obvious the truth hurts when the name calling from the left is always the answer...lol.
Maybe Kathleen Wynne would do a better job, oh wait she lost so bad the last election the liberals lost party status in Ontario ...:o

---

At least you cant deny he is not protecting the environment and taking away any authority the Conservation authorities had. Calling somebody out for what they are is the proper thing to do, he is lying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Give me a call when your house burns down or gets flooded.

---

The sky is falling....The sky is falling.

Careful...your indoctrination is showing

If you want to have a real debate on climate change I'm game but you need to do some homework.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Now I don't think this Liberal supporter is going any where as long as we have to keep watch of the Con's.

Your hard working, austere Mr. Harper is like all the rest of the Corporate licking types, he gives them tax break's and Corporate Welfare, allows them not pay taxes in Canada with their off shore accounts and then he gets rewarded with sitting on a few comfy boards with big salaries, while you get to pay your taxes.

Now I know your guys are upset at losing at the polls, but your probably still hurting from that beat down in the boxing ring that Justin gave that wife beating Conservative Senator, what's his name Patrick Brazeau. Hardly a hair out of place. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuSpZ3_5pTc

Patrick had to get his little pony tail cut off for losing that fight. LOL

Yes Justin the hero of women's rights and defender, its enough to make a guy swoon.

---

Good lord, how did I miss this! Thank you! I haven't laughed like that since by buddy stuck his finger in a beehive. It was like watching two butterflies squabble over a flower!

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

Can actually agree with some of that.

Why though so you expect people to live within means but not governments? And by extension their employees.

Prior to Covid, Ontario was projecting 150B in revenue. 75B was for salaries and benefits......

Some rough math. The typical peon grosses around 50k. Fed and provincial income taxes take about 20%. 10K. I’m ignoring EI, CPP, Health tax premium.

$40,000 to pay rent/mtg and land taxes. So call that $2,000/month or another 10k.

$30,000
To pay heating, insurance, Hydro. Call that $500/month or $6,000

24,000
To buy Food. We budget $150/wk foe two of us. or $600 month. ($7,200)

$17,000
To pay for a car ($400) insurance (100) gas ($200) and maintenance ($100) Call this $800 month. Or $9,600

Leaves $7,000 for everything else.

There’s a thing called reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

The sky is falling....The sky is falling.

Careful...your indoctrination is showing

If you want to have a real debate on climate change I'm game but you need to do some homework.

---

Your predictions suck I think I will stick with mine. Thanks.

"Biden not a chance
Trudeau possibly. Depends on the WE fallout and the results of the conservative leadership race.
Freeland, I don't see it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oaknut

Good lord, how did I miss this! Thank you! I haven't laughed like that since by buddy stuck his finger in a beehive. It was like watching two butterflies squabble over a flower!

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

---

Yeh the Conservative discovered that Trudeau floated like a butterfly but stung like bee" LOL

Gilroy, here's some of your great leader...

https://youtu.be/2w0VZ2bsIJY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Your predictions suck I think I will stick with mine. Thanks.

"Biden not a chance
Trudeau possibly. Depends on the WE fallout and the results of the conservative leadership race.
Freeland, I don't see it

---

There is a difference between predictions and scientific evidence. The things I have presented to debunk your climate alarmism aren't predictions.

Again....your logic is off.

Keep trying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Can actually agree with some of that.

Why though so you expect people to live within means but not governments? And by extension their employees.

Prior to Covid, Ontario was projecting 150B in revenue. 75B was for salaries and benefits......

Some rough math. The typical peon grosses around 50k. Fed and provincial income taxes take about 20%. 10K. I’m ignoring EI, CPP, Health tax premium.

$40,000 to pay rent/mtg and land taxes. So call that $2,000/month or another 10k.

$30,000
To pay heating, insurance, Hydro. Call that $500/month or $6,000

24,000
To buy Food. We budget $150/wk foe two of us. or $600 month. ($7,200)

$17,000
To pay for a car ($400) insurance (100) gas ($200) and maintenance ($100) Call this $800 month. Or $9,600

Leaves $7,000 for everything else.

There’s a thing called reality.

---

What is wrong with that.

Maybe a guy could get a second job or work overtime.

I managed to raise 3 kids and look after the wife on one salary, I must be a miracle worker.

Gilroy
There were 3.4 million Canadians living in poverty in 2017 . 2020 8.7 percent of Canada falls below and lives below the poverty line 3.2 million Canadians.
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...n-history.html

I saw some place that well over half of the business took the ceba small loan amount 40 Now total of 60 thousand for many places.
How do the smaller companies pay this back if they are forced to keep shutting down? .
Can't find the link .

Have you not been listening to jben at all ?

He speaks the truth how many Canadians are living.

Much of Canada's wages haven't moved in the last 20 years but everything has gone up significantly.

How many Canadians now can afford a cottage and house theses days ? Many can't they choose to pay the bills and figure out how they are eating just from the house.


I am ok I will be ok but I speak about the millions who are not. Because I'm not self centered I actually see what's happening in life and not just my own. I talked to a guy the other day I have no clue who he is . Had a good 10 minute conversation I didn't have time to talk to him but I did he probably needed it he told me his wife passed away this year. Sometimes people need someone to talk too. Life is easy for some but Many struggle everyday.

We are not all equal nor does everyone make the big bucks to survive. As jben has said only 10 percent makes a decent amount almost another 10 percent below the poverty line . That will leave another 20 percent just above the the poverty line maybe 40 in the middle and the other 20 closer to the top 10 percent. Maybe. That's just a guess.


If you expect housing to continue to climb how will people be able to afford it?

Ps
Forcing the cost of living to go up will only do more harm to society then good.
We as a society is broken right now and now is not the time to force people to pay more. We are in the middle of a pandemic [emoji849]



Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

There is a difference between predictions and scientific evidence. The things I have presented to debunk your climate alarmism aren't predictions.

Again....your logic is off.

Keep trying.

---

You offer no scientific evidence just a lot of hot air, you been inhaling bad air off those Texas oil field's again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You offer no scientific evidence just a lot of hot air, you been inhaling bad air off those Texas oil field's again.

---

How do you provide evidence from the future?

In 1991 the earth cooled for 2 to 3 years from a volcano [emoji291]

The next big eruption could do the same maybe even begin a new ice age. Who knows what will happen.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You offer no scientific evidence just a lot of hot air, you been inhaling bad air off those Texas oil field's again.

---

Go back and read the Forbes article on "97% of scientist agree" if you still believe that 97% of scientists agree you didn't understand what was written.

You are throwing numbers and ideas around about climate change that just aren't true, and demonstrably so, even if they are part of the current narrative. Just because the media tells you something is true doesn't make it so. It's all just cheap rhetoric, half truths and lying by omission.

If we want to stop global warming this is the scientific lead we need to follow.
Gilroy here is the scientific evidence you so desire

https://youtu.be/mCv6n91ikB8

What happens if Yellowstone blows?

Always a possibility it's been due for a long time. When it does it could drop the global temps for 20 years.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...climate-change

What happens to the southern states when we drop the temps of our global temperature ? Would there be consequences that we would have to deal with? Sure there is.

What if we dropped the temperature down and it creates many more problems like growing seasons impacts. Will it rain more if we drop the temps to stop the drought. ?





Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Gilroy your catastrophic floods have happened before but we forgot about the past.

California great flood after decades of drought over 150 years ago. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-catastrophe/

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

How Many times has the earth cooled from volcanos over the course it's life how many ice ages have there been since the beginning of life ? It will happen again too .

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=fishfood;1136104]Gilroy
There were 3.4 million Canadians living in poverty in 2017 . 2020 8.7 percent of Canada falls below and lives below the poverty line 3.2 million Canadians.
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...n-history.html


R. Well we are in 2020 and have always had people living in poverty, all that chart show's me is that the Liberal's are doing a good job at reducing poverty.

I saw some place that well over half of the business took the ceba small loan amount 40 Now total of 60 thousand for many places.
How do the smaller companies pay this back if they are forced to keep shutting down? .
Can't find the link .

R. Well clearly many will not pay back the loans to the government.

Have you not been listening to jben at all ?

He speaks the truth how many Canadians are living.

R. Yes, him and I basically came from the same place and basically have had the same health set back's that cost us a great deal of time and money.

Much of Canada's wages haven't moved in the last 20 years but everything has gone up significantly.

R. Nothing to do with me, you need to ask the high paid CEO,s where you increases went, Conservatives love to trash the Trade Union's maybe thy have the answers.

How many Canadians now can afford a cottage and house theses days ?
Many can't they choose to pay the bills and figure out how they are eating just from the house.

R. Historically very few people could afford a house and a cottage.


I am ok I will be ok but I speak about the millions who are not. Because I'm not self centered I actually see what's happening in life and not just my own.

R. Well I don't think I 'am self centered that would be more a Conservative trait from what I have seen.

I talked to a guy the other day I have no clue who he is . Had a good 10 minute conversation I didn't have time to talk to him but I did he probably needed it he told me his wife passed away this year. Sometimes people need someone to talk too. Life is easy for some but Many struggle everyday.

R.Yeh I have a friend who lost his wife last year and he will call me a spend 3 hours at a time talking.

We are not all equal nor does everyone make the big bucks to survive.
R. I don't make the big bucks to survive I have been on a pension for the past 12 years.


As jben has said only 10 percent makes a decent amount almost another 10 percent below the poverty line . That will leave another 20 percent just above the the poverty line maybe 40 in the middle and the other 20 closer to the top 10 percent. Maybe. That's just a guess.

R.JBEN says a lot and he quotes $50,000 as the average wage, your study quotes $59,800.00 and that's from 2017?


If you expect housing to continue to climb how will people be able to afford it?

R. This is apparently the Capitalist's way ,free unfettered market's

Ps
Forcing the cost of living to go up will only do more harm to society then good.
We as a society is broken right now and now is not the time to force people to pay more. We are in the middle of a pandemic

R. Society has been broken for a long time, the pandemic has just magnified the problems already existing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Go back and read the Forbes article on "97% of scientist agree" if you still believe that 97% of scientists agree you didn't understand what was written.

You are throwing numbers and ideas around about climate change that just aren't true, and demonstrably so, even if they are part of the current narrative. Just because the media tells you something is true doesn't make it so. It's all just cheap rhetoric, half truths and lying by omission.

---

You forgot to add IMHO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishfood

What happens if Yellowstone blows?

Always a possibility it's been due for a long time. When it does it could drop the global temps for 20 years.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...climate-change

What happens to the southern states when we drop the temps of our global temperature ? Would there be consequences that we would have to deal with? Sure there is.

What if we dropped the temperature down and it creates many more problems like growing seasons impacts. Will it rain more if we drop the temps to stop the drought. ?





Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishfood

Gilroy your catastrophic floods have happened before but we forgot about the past.

California great flood after decades of drought over 150 years ago. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-catastrophe/

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishfood

How Many times has the earth cooled from volcanos over the course it's life how many ice ages have there been since the beginning of life ? It will happen again too .

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

---

Alrighty then I guess we should all go out and buy a big hulking Cadillac Escalade, install a gas guzzling hot tub in the back yard, the climate like the ozone layer will fix itself. Lets strip out the last of the rainforest in the Amazon as the World does not need its lungs...

FF and Gil. Someone must be able to buy cottages, as the prices keep going up and vacation properties are the hottest real estate market. They are going for way over asking with bidding wars. They can’t all be PS workers. Lol

So if society has been broken a long time and the pandemic has only made it worse is it a great time to start increasing the cost of living ? Besides the pandemic it's self lowered the emotions this year.

I think Ontario's average is 56 thousand but that's only an average many more under and many more over .

Why does the average family have no savings for the future? They just simply can't afford it.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF and Gil. Someone must be able to buy cottages, as the prices keep going up and vacation properties are the hottest real estate market. They are going for way over asking with bidding wars. They can’t all be PS workers. Lol

---

Well FF did question "who could afford a house and a cottage". So cottages are going up for sure, basically folks selling in the GTA and other urban places and retiring and moving out. Up my way in cottage country I see the Chinese are moving in and buying big parcels of land all over the place. So there are some that can afford both even now.

Historically cottages were inherited by most families in Ontario and kept in the family. After marriage split up's and fighting sibling's this is a thing of the past, the generational cottage IMHO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Alrighty then I guess we should all go out and buy a big hulking Cadillac Escalade, install a gas guzzling hot tub in the back yard, the climate like the ozone layer will fix itself. Lets strip out the last of the rainforest in the Amazon as the World does not need its lungs...

---

Not everyone will go out and buy a big escalade lol.

Who is cutting down the Amazon not me lol.

It's called public awareness look what happens when you force change.

What did vw do with its emitions?

The truth of the matter is he have dealt with catastrophic events for thousands of years. So has earth's temperature has fluctuated and changed many times before us .

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

FF and Gil. Someone must be able to buy cottages, as the prices keep going up and vacation properties are the hottest real estate market. They are going for way over asking with bidding wars. They can’t all be PS workers. Lol

---

Many of them are bailing from the city lol. Close or took retirement early from the pandemic.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Think about some things I didn’t add Gilroy.

The the $800 monthly for an EV. And $30,000 for a solar roof.

Or simply many taxes/fees not budgeted in. Nor clothes for the children, and on and on.
:)

and no cop, struggles to get by or save for a miserable retirement.....

quite the opposite

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishfood

So if society has been broken a long time and the pandemic has only made it worse is it a great time to start increasing the cost of living ? Besides the pandemic it's self lowered the emotions this year.

I think Ontario's average is 56 thousand but that's only an average many more under and many more over .

Why does the average family have no savings for the future? They just simply can't afford it.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

---

I believe the average family has no savings because they have been to busy spending beyond their means.

You know when I got my first home I had two mortgages one at 12% and the other I believe was 14%.I pulled it off by renting out my basement, taking bagged lunches to work for 20 years and driving chit box cars. I paid off my first home in 5 years,my wife basically stopped working to have kid's,I bought my second home 1985 and had that paid off in 1989.Mortgage free for the past 31 years.

That’s how we-society, reward them for their difficult job. A nice pension. Nobody that works for 30 + years should have to worry about having a pension. Nobody. If they don’t , it is not the fault of those that do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Think about some things I didn’t add Gilroy.

The the $800 monthly for an EV. And $30,000 for a solar roof.

Or simply many taxes/fees not budgeted in. Nor clothes for the children, and on and on.
:)

and no cop, struggles to get by or save for a miserable retirement.....

quite the opposite

---

Are you suggesting that a Cop is so well paid that everything just falls into place .LOL No planning for a rainy day.

Does a Cop make more than a GM guy in Oshawa back in the day, did he make more than a plumber or electrician?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

That’s how we-society, reward them for their difficult job. Nobody that works for 30 + years should have to worry about having a pension. Nobody. If they don’t it is not the fault of those that do.

---

Yup the pension envy folk's we see on here all the time would not have put their lives on the line for a second, they also do not understand the death/attrition rate of retirees from some of these jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I believe the average family has no savings because they have been to busy spending beyond their means.

You know when I got my first home I had two mortgages one at 12% and the other I believe was 14%.I pulled it off by renting out my basement, taking bagged lunches to work for 20 years and driving chit box cars. I paid off my first home in 5 years,my wife basically stopped working to have kid's,I bought my second home 1985 and had that paid off in 1989.Mortgage free for the past 31 years.

---

And what did you pay for both properties combined? I bet it was less or not much more than 300 thousand.

Now your looking at 3 times that for a starter house and many making less than what you did then. See what I'm getting at ?

Do the police now make 10 times as much as you then when you bought your first place ?

That's where the house numbers have gone to 10x higher now

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Lol.
1985

Houses didn’t cost $200,000 let alone $800,000.
Even at 0% interest Gilroy assuming the typical stiff could Miraculously save $5,000 a year. It would take 20 years just to save $100,00 or pay off that.

Nor did you have to squirrel for today did you? So what ever free money you had....

Nor were you landtaxes outrageous because you more Gilroys to take care off.

Nor was Hydro outrageous, there was no HST, or gas/sun taxes were nothing like they are today. Plates didn’t cost $120, and there was no $1,000/year Health tax premium. Things like stoves and refrigerators were built to last, as was your house.

Data plans weren’t $100/month.

Compared to today Gilroy you got to walk to school downhill both ways.

point being.
you can’t suck and blow at the same time. Can’t expect working stiffs to live within their means ( paltry) , when your employers don’t have the vaguest idea of what that means.

Very true, but don’t blame those that are now in their Autumn Years. We paid what was our share at the time. And we also have kids that we know have it much worse. I too took the path of austerity early in life t to allow me to have ,what I do now. Even though I can afford it now,I still have basic cable and phone plans. Basic cars etc. Nothing fancy in my life. I can buy what I want now, because I didn’t when I was younger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Lol.
1985

Houses didn’t cost $200,000 let alone $800,000.


R. That's right houses did cost that but what were our wages. Apples and oranges.
Even at 0% interest Gilroy assuming the typical stiff could Miraculously save $5,000 a year. It would take 20 years just to save $100,00 or pay off that.
R.If your typical stiff cannot save its their own fault. Heck I sound like a Conservative LOL

Nor did you have to squirrel for today did you? So what ever free money you had....

R. Free money, please show me the money?

Nor were you landtaxes outrageous because you more Gilroys to take care off.
R. Well the land taxes are outrageous because of your friend Mr Harris and MPAC but you already know that.

Nor was Hydro outrageous, there was no HST, or gas/sun taxes were nothing like they are today.

R. Again Mr. Harris who was going to slay Ontario hydro instead he raised rates and CEO salaries.

Plates didn’t cost $120, and there was no $1,000/year Health tax premium.

R .Provincial responsibility Doug Ford.

Data plans weren’t $100/month.

R. Your getting a deal I pay way more than that.

Compared to today Gilroy you got to walk to school downhill both ways

---

R .Your right I walked to school both way's and it was cold and rainy back home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Very true, but don’t blame those that are now in their Autumn Years. We paid what was our share at the time. And we also have kids that we know have it much worse. I too took the path of austerity early in life t to allow me to have ,what I do now. Even though I can afford it now,I still have basic cable and phone plans. Basic cars etc. Nothing fancy in my life.

---

Snap exact same here, oh my goodness could we actually be closet CONSERVATIVES help,help,...LOL

Common Rick don't be shy,tell uncle JBEN how you did it.

I don’t G. Times were different. 20-30 years ago.

I can “blame” them or more specifically their unions, for being greedy sons of es, and not comprehending what it’s doing to the working class.

And we can “blame” the beuracrats, and politicians who likewise don’t give a rats backside.

And we can blame people who won’t hold them accountable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

I don’t G. Times were different. 20-30 years ago.

I can “blame” them or more specifically their unions, for being greedy sons of es, and not comprehending what it’s doing to the working class.

And we can “blame” the beuracrats, and politicians who likewise don’t give a rats backside.

And we can blame people who won’t hold them accountable.

---

Well JBEN you and I are about the same age, basically grew up in the same era with the same mortgages and house prices and everything else. We even had the same illness , I had to stop work at 48 years old with three kids and a wife to keep and when I had 30 years on I was shown the door. No more wages. Take your pension and go sick or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

the climate like the ozone layer will fix itself.

---

I know you are saying this tongue in cheek but I am surprised the liberals don't believe this as they seem to believe the budget will balance itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Very true, but don’t blame those that are now in their Autumn Years. We paid what was our share at the time. And we also have kids that we know have it much worse. I too took the path of austerity early in life t to allow me to have ,what I do now. Even though I can afford it now,I still have basic cable and phone plans. Basic cars etc. Nothing fancy in my life. I can buy what I want now, because I didn’t when I was younger.

---

We are not blaming you guys

Just trying make Gilroy understand what has happened. Like I said you 2 are fairly well of compared to the vast majority of Canadians under 50 lol.

I'm under 40 and have seen what most Canadians are facing. I have also seen a house in the 80s for 50 thousand now 600 thousand plus. But the wages have not gone up like that.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Check this out
https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/a...-stagnant/amp/


Also the average family income in the 80s 55 thousand a year
Push forward 30 years and the average family income is 62 thousand. Wow

No wonder we can't afford nothing and houses are only 15 time as more now then then. . [emoji23].

http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_avgin.html

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

I know you are saying this tongue in cheek but I am surprised the liberals don't believe this as they seem to believe the budget will balance itself.

---

Well fortunately the ozone layer did get fixed with all countries in the World agreeing and getting it done.

Budgets will get blown in this time of the pandemic, I have not witnesses anybody refusing the aid or sending back any cheques have you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

We are not blaming you guys

Just trying make Gilroy understand what has happened. Like I said you 2 are fairly well of compared to the vast majority of Canadians under 50 lol.

I'm under 40 and have seen what most Canadians are facing. I have also seen a house in the 80s for 50 thousand now 600 thousand plus. But the wages have not gone up like that.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

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Gilroy understands full well what you are saying but the demise of the middle class lies at the feet of the Corporations and the 1% elite. Everything is manipulated to their advantage, including house prices, please read up on REIT's and the elite worldwide
who will stop at nothing to get everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well fortunately the ozone layer did get fixed with all countries in the World agreeing and getting it done.

Budgets will get blown in this time of the pandemic, I have not witnesses anybody refusing the aid or sending back any cheques have you?

---

Oddly enough I don't actually know a single person that applied for or collected any pandemic related benefits/aid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishfood

Check this out
https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/a...-stagnant/amp/


Also the average family income in the 80s 55 thousand a year
Push forward 30 years and the average family income is 62 thousand. Wow

No wonder we can't afford nothing and houses are only 15 time as more now then then. . [emoji23].

http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_avgin.html

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

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Your right about house prices and wages but are putting the blame on the wrong folk's.

In 1989 I made $89,000.00 working in the Major Crime Unit. I only got to that amount by working insane hours of overtime and court time. But I did put a lot of bad guys in jail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Oddly enough I don't actually know a single person that applied for or collected any pandemic related benefits/aid.

---

I am not surprised at that in the least considering where you are from:

Dun Morogh is a snowy region located between the magma-strewn wasteland of the Searing Gorge to the south, the gentle ridges of Loch Modan to the east, and the swampy Wetlands to the north. Dun Morogh is home to both the gnomes of Gnomeregan and the Ironforge dwarves and is the location of the major city of Ironforge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I am not surprised at that in the least considering where you are from:

Dun Morogh is a snowy region located between the magma-strewn wasteland of the Searing Gorge to the south, the gentle ridges of Loch Modan to the east, and the swampy Wetlands to the north. Dun Morogh is home to both the gnomes of Gnomeregan and the Ironforge dwarves and is the location of the major city of Ironforge.

---

Well true that but everybody makes at least 350k per year here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

Well true that but everybody makes at least 350k per year here.

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Can you get me in there, or do I have to be a card carrying Conservative. LOL Be careful how you answer its always a loaded question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Can you get me in there, or do I have to be a card carrying Conservative. LOL Be careful how you answer its always a loaded question.

---

You'll be happy to know we are apolitical. Ideologies must be jettisoned at the border. The only requirement is to worship the one true God - Captain Picard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Species8472

You'll be happy to know we are apolitical. Ideologies must be jettisoned at the border. The only requirement is to worship the one true God - Captain Picard.

---

Ok as long as its not the G.A.O.T.U

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Gilroy understands full well what you are saying but the demise of the middle class lies at the feet of the Corporations and the 1% elite. Everything is manipulated to their advantage, including house prices, please read up on REIT's and the elite worldwide
who will stop at nothing to get everything.

---

Look at my last post family avg income has only gone up about 6 to 7 thousand a year in the last 40 year's

But gas has doubled in the last 30 has doubled and everything thing else too. Or more . Milk is close to the same price it went up accordingly [emoji23][emoji2] lol


And what was 50 to 100g to live in is now 500 to 1.4 million.
I see you did look lol got busy
We our selves our are own worst enemy lol.





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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well JBEN you and I are about the same age, basically grew up in the same era with the same mortgages and house prices and everything else. We even had the same illness , I had to stop work at 48 years old with three kids and a wife to keep and when I had 30 years on I was shown the door. No more wages. Take your pension and go sick or not.

---

We did And I’m pretty sure we crossed paths at least once some dark night :)

You made it 30 years with 1 job. My father died at 51. He didn’t get to draw his, but likewise was a lifer.

I’ve been laid off twice. Most people these days switch jobs I think it’s 7 times. And each time there’s a contraction/recession, those that lose jobs lose GROUND.

Look around Gilroy. How many people in PS have been laid off? Or had their wages cut 20-40%.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/09/...even-recovery/

So what does that mean say in two years time? Forget about news taxes paying for crap.

Heard today Whitby is handing out tickets to people that park sideways on their driveways.

There’s cops and firefighters, armies of civil servants and beuracrats to pay after all and revenue is in the toilet.

Back to the start of it.
Yes people live beyond their means, try to keep up with the 20% club. That includes.........

You can’t harp about people spending too much and not expect our govts to do the same.

Well I hope I did not come across as "harping about people spending to much" when all I was doing was explaining to FF how I managed to pull things off, essentially sticking to a budget and having to be frugal.
But that come's easily to me because I came here with nothing and from nothing like so many immigrants before me. But I digress.

I think governments should make budget and stick to them but in times like these they have to go into debt for the general good of the public and especially for those in precarious employment situations.

I see a couple of positive things right now if only the Government can get their act's together.

(1) Use the stimulus money to re train people across the board for a recovery. There are actually skills shortages all across Canada.
(2) I believe the Federal Government could easily see the release of Billion of dollars in savings accounts held by Canadian's
if they cared to issue a bond, use it for what you like Infrastructure for example and give the lenders a couple of percent, its
better than essentially nothing right now and would be guaranteed.
(3) No immigration into Canada for jobs until its determined a Canadian cannot be trained for the same job.

Going back to the topic in hand after almost a full year where planes have been grounded, less shipping,less production,less car travel, I would like to see if the climate scientists can give us a total carbon emission as compared to the previous year.

I would expect a big difference but atlas with the big fires around the globe are we any better off carbon wise.

The entire world shut down..business closed, air traffic grounded, no tourism, greatly reduce commuting to work (massive unemployment)

And yet according the world watchers of Co2 emissions, we only dented the total by 9%....

Quote:

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The COVID-19 pandemic is impacting human activities, and in turn energy use and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. Here we present daily estimates of country-level CO2 emissions for different sectors based on near-real-time activity data. The key result is an abrupt 8.8% decrease in global CO2 emissions (−1551 Mt CO2) in the first half of 2020 compared to the same period in 2019.

---

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7

So to all you Greeny's out there...Canada’s Paris target is to reduce GHGs 30 % ( Co2 is 81% if GHG) from 2005 levels by 2030. And going to spend $Billions trying to to it.

We have shut down Canada for a year and have only achieved 9% of that goal....you starting to see what life is going to be like in your Utopian world. ?

edit add: maybe Trudeau is right..this was an 'opportunity' ...now we see what we have to sacrifice to get just a fraction of what he's committed us to with the Paris Agreement.

I harp about people living beyond their means. Keeping up with the Jones ( the 20% club) all the time. ;) Govt employees from janitors to Union heads. To Prime. Everyone is human and not immune to “greed”.

Unlike some, I’m not afraid of change. May not always relish it, but I’m not afraid of it. When Harper lost, given the state Ontario and Alberta I thought “this could be bad”. By all means dig up old threads. :) Canada’s two economic engines in the toilet.

Unlike some, while I didn’t like JTs blown budgets early on. I wasn’t freaking out. Debt is just a number for a sovereign country ( unlike Ontario). Dig up old threads where I say things like “debt to GDP is what’s important”

None the less. I afraid of the wanton spending because they weren’t spending it on “good debt”. What do we have for all the spending?

Sunny days last forever...until they don’t.

Dig up old threads.
I used say things like. “You’d think Ontario, the GTA would have learned lessons given.
Wanton spending on PS for votes. Followed by
2008
Green insanity
Gerald Butts

Nope, few on the L. Did.And now prices are being paid. Big ones. By those that can least afford it.

GDP
Alberta followed by Ontario and immigration. Now all in the toilet.

Looks at 2020
Looks at carbon taxes and more

Immigrarion should spring back. That’s as easy as opening airports and floodgates. When? Who knows at this point. Where will they go? I can hear John Tories violin now. I can hear the bellyaching from the electorate now. About this that and the other. Too bad, you made your bed. And what jobs exactly will they create?

it’s going to be years, years and years before the dust settles.

Trump trumps Trudeau in reducing greenhouse gases

After four years of President Donald Trump, the United States is poised to meet and likely exceed its target of reducing its industrial greenhouse gas emissions linked to human-induced climate change to 17% below 2005 levels by the end of this year.

By contrast, after five years of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Canada is poised to miss the same target by a huge margin.


This despite the fact Trump, unlike Trudeau, never imposed a national carbon tax on the U.S. (Nor has any American president done so.)

Read the full article here ---> https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...eenhouse-gases

When you let market forces prevail, technology advancement and investment work naturally to evolve and product more efficient outputs...when you try and be a communist dictator / UN Puppet like Trudeau and impose green levies you chase away business and investment which would otherwise be working to make cleaner energy, more efficient vehicles, etc.. seems like a simple concept its too bad a drama teacher cannot comprehend..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

You forgot to add IMHO.

---

Facts don't care about my opinion

I am not anti environment. I just don't see the need to bankrupt the world through green policies (carbon tax) that are based on pseudo-science.

I’m also willing to bet more Americans can afford EVs.

While there are trade offs to lower taxation. The road to Nirvanna is not by paved by breaking the back of the majority.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielco...h=1f91fdf99812

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Facts don't care about my opinion

I am not anti environment. I just don't see the need to bankrupt the world through green policies (carbon tax) that are based on pseudo-science.

---

Ha...

https://i.imgur.com/rSmhWXd.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

The entire world shut down..business closed, air traffic grounded, no tourism, greatly reduce commuting to work (massive unemployment)

And yet according the world watchers of Co2 emissions, we only dented the total by 9%....

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7

So to all you Greeny's out there...Canada’s Paris target is to reduce GHGs 30 % ( Co2 is 81% if GHG) from 2005 levels by 2030. And going to spend $Billions trying to to it.

We have shut down Canada for a year and have only achieved 9% of that goal....you starting to see what life is going to be like in your Utopian world. ?

edit add: maybe Trudeau is right..this was an 'opportunity' ...now we see what we have to sacrifice to get just a fraction of what he's committed us to with the Paris Agreement.

---

Well the study did not take into consideration what I already mentioned the massive wild fires all over Australia and the USA.
Also China still ramped its industrial production still using coal as a main source. Also the Amazon Rainforest getting cut down at alarming rates.

So basically 9% reduction in under a year ,very good news for the planet and shows what is achievable in a very short frame. We have been through 4 industrial revolutions spanning hundred's who could we possibly expect a massive change in a year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kokes

Trump trumps Trudeau in reducing greenhouse gases

After four years of President Donald Trump, the United States is poised to meet and likely exceed its target of reducing its industrial greenhouse gas emissions linked to human-induced climate change to 17% below 2005 levels by the end of this year.

By contrast, after five years of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Canada is poised to miss the same target by a huge margin.


This despite the fact Trump, unlike Trudeau, never imposed a national carbon tax on the U.S. (Nor has any American president done so.)

Read the full article here ---> https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...eenhouse-gases

When you let market forces prevail, technology advancement and investment work naturally to evolve and product more efficient outputs...when you try and be a communist dictator / UN Puppet like Trudeau and impose green levies you chase away business and investment which would otherwise be working to make cleaner energy, more efficient vehicles, etc.. seems like a simple concept its too bad a drama teacher cannot comprehend..

---

I think you might need a geography lesson most of Canada is frozen with sub temperatures for more than half the year. That is why we are the biggest user of fossil fuels on the planet. When you let marker forces prevail you loose your middle class, have Wall Street rape and pillage and give the 1% the whole place.

The Trump family are good at letting market forces prevail they are under investigation in New York for ripping off attendees at
Trump towers, charging $170,000 for a convention room for the inaugural when the week before it was $5,000.00
He has been sued some 200 times by the State and they have won 80% of the cases.

Gilroy

I looked yesterday for you it was kinda pointless lol.

I saw articles that say from 7 to 25 percent less . Then another that said we have not changed it at all lol.
Every article was different so nothing was consistent to post .

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Facts don't care about my opinion

I am not anti environment. I just don't see the need to bankrupt the world through green policies (carbon tax) that are based on pseudo-science.

---

Oh well you can tell that to Condo owners in Canada who will see massive increases in their maintenance fee's because Lloyd's of London are getting out of insuring these buildings because of the number of claims and now they have to be at the mercy of "market forces" and get ripped off in the meantime. Just a simple example of what we are going to pay either way.

Have you checked your home insurance recently? You understand there is no cap on this in Ontario? Hold onto you wallet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishfood

Gilroy

I looked yesterday for you it was kinda pointless lol.

I saw articles that say from 7 to 25 percent less . Then another that said we have not changed it at all lol.
Every article was different so nothing was consistent to post .

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

---

There is some stuff posted now, but for anybody to expect a massive drop in less than a year, when we have been polluting the planet for hundred's of years is just unreasonable.

I think if we did not have half of Australia burning and California and the massive destruction of the rain forest which continues
we would have seen a magnificent result.

Man's greed is the problem China took a short break but started up the coal plants right away for the cash, even although they are chocking their citizens to death, same story in India, but their its less industrial and more transportation in already overcrowded cities.
Both these nations cannot even pick the garbage of their street's how would we expect them deal with pollution right now.
But both those nations know they must do something because their health is being affected.https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/india-...lead-1.5833982

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Oh well you can tell that to Condo owners in Canada who will see massive increases in their maintenance fee's because Lloyd's of London are getting out of insuring these buildings because of the number of claims and now they have to be at the mercy of "market forces" and get ripped off in the meantime. Just a simple example of what we are going to pay either way.

Have you checked your home insurance recently? You understand there is no cap on this in Ontario? Hold onto you wallet.

---

You're losing me....What are the nature of these claims that are causing the denial of insurance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakezilla

You're losing me....What are the nature of these claims that are causing the denial of insurance?

---

Weather.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS...on-redirect=ca

Our government always pushing the boundaries and give a worst case scenario . Is it as bad as they say nope but they will use the worst case to get it done and fit their agenda .

As seen with covid 19 . Only show the worst case . Never mind about truth just show the worst of it.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Weather.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS...on-redirect=ca

---

Maybe the cost have gone up so what was 30 billion to fix 10 years ago is now 80 billion to fix now

Just a suggestion [emoji6]

Like I mentioned catastrophic events have been happening for ever.

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Hurricane by the decades is pretty standard over the last 170 years. In fact we saw less or a decline 30 years ago why is that? Has there been an increase in hurricanes in the past 30 years yes we have but still consistent with almost 200 years.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Again consistent with my last post as it didn't show us the latest trends.

But if you noticed it's still consistent with the other link I sent .

So has the global warming really really made all these mega storms ?

Not likely it's been happening for centuries but we are to believe it's worse https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...161c8a4c3a.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I think you might need a geography lesson most of Canada is frozen with sub temperatures for more than half the year. That is why we are the biggest user of fossil fuels on the planet. When you let marker forces prevail you loose your middle class, have Wall Street rape and pillage and give the 1% the whole place.

The Trump family are good at letting market forces prevail they are under investigation in New York for ripping off attendees at
Trump towers, charging $170,000 for a convention room for the inaugural when the week before it was $5,000.00
He has been sued some 200 times by the State and they have won 80% of the cases.

---

Oh Gilroy you are funny... I'd venture to guess what it takes to heat my house through a winter here in the "north" is equivalent in terms of fossil fuel useage as to what it take in hydro to cool a home in Florida or Arizona through the summer..thanks for the geography lesson that its colder in Canada, much appreciated commrade.

27% of my last gas bill was carbon tax ... oh and they charged HST on the carbon tax!

Tax, tax, tax, tax .... and no results, no results, no results, no results ... THIS has not curbed CO2 output ... it definitely did NOTHING to fight climate change.

It is one big stupid and poorly executed idea! And they are doubling down now???? LOL, Trudeau is off the chart insane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kokes

Oh Gilroy you are funny... I'd venture to guess what it takes to heat my house through a winter here in the "north" is equivalent in terms of fossil fuel useage as to what it take in hydro to cool a home in Florida or Arizona through the summer..thanks for the geography lesson that its colder in Canada, much appreciated commrade.

---

Your way..of the mark there and of course decided to zero in on a State with high temperatures. How about you be a little more sensible and look across the whole of Canada and its fossil fuel use, we have to heat homes for half the year and we all drive long distances. Pretty simply really to figure out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

27% of my last gas bill was carbon tax ... oh and they charged HST on the carbon tax!

Tax, tax, tax, tax .... and no results, no results, no results, no results ... THIS has not curbed CO2 output ... it definitely did NOTHING to fight climate change.

It is one big stupid and poorly executed idea! And they are doubling down now???? LOL, Trudeau is off the chart insane.

---

Being a good leader means making hard decisions.

Lets see what Mr O Toole proposes from his soapbox, the public have already spoken on pipe lines in the last election ,do you need a replay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Being a good leader means making hard decisions.
.

---

Indeed, I agree. But that's the problem in this country, we don't have a good leader...lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Birdbuff

In the name of preservation of human kind to lower the effects of climate change, I’m all for it. BUT!!! I’m only for it if other countries are doing their fair share to curb the climate crisis.

---

This pole tax will not reduce the carbon footprint, all this will do is make the poor poorer in this country, mainly the rural population and those in northern communities who cannot afford to change to something else and put it all on credit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

This pole tax will not reduce the carbon footprint, all this will do is make the poor poorer in this country, mainly the rural population and those in northern communities who cannot afford to change to something else and put it all on credit.

---

How true

And so many don't look at the past we have seen floodings wild fires and hurricanes devastating the world for hundreds of years . The cost of living has gone up and so has the devastating cost of rebuilding .

But it cost more now so we have a bigger problem lol.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Weather.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS...on-redirect=ca

---

So that article is your proof that Lloyds is dropping commercial building insurance in Canada? That's a pretty big leap, even for you.

My 2 copper.

Getting 60% of the population to change their habits is a tall order. Consider what it took to get people wear seatbelts and not drink. Both with huge cost on the back end...

Now consider smoking. Will taxation work? Of coarse it helps but it’s not the be all and end all.

People on shoestring budgets. When you live in Cities and have cheap Nat Gas, access to public transportation. Changing habits is “easy”. This will kill people that don’t live in cities. FFS way too many people are still on electric heat.........and switching over to propane or oil ain’t cheap.....

Alberta gripes about the transfer tax. Prior to the Liberals and green idiots helping to kill them off, the transfer was 20B a year.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to consider how many EVs could be on the road if 20B/year was used to help buy EVs for the masses that don’t gross $65,000

But common sense was never a long suit of Liberals, and thinking about the big picture not something the GTA does very often.

Fuel tax currently adds about 40% to everyone’s gas expense/budget. Do the math. And that’s today.

I just want to publicly thank the leader of the opposition Erin O'Toole for supporting the Paris Climate Accord. Also for agreeing with Alberta that we need a Carbon Tax, as Alberta was the first Province to propose one.

Pleas enjoy the video and attached links, I 'am going to make some pop corn.LOL

"Polling conducted in Canada made it clear in the last election the lack of a serious climate change plan was a factor for those who voted against the Conservatives. A lack of a serious plan will jeopardize the party's future chances."
Moving to O'Toole's “criteria” is where things get most interesting. It is where the Conservatives have boxed themselves into a corner by stating that policies will be “founded on proven market-based principles for incenting positive economic change,” “making industry pay,” “forging a national … pricing regime” and “simplifying the tax code.”

This sounds very much like a carbon tax, or certainly a carbon-pricing mechanism of some design. Perhaps like the one in Alberta, or the cap and trade system that Doug Ford scrapped in Ontario, or Manitoba’s new Green Levy, or the output-based performance standard Saskatchewan is proposing — all variations of a national pricing system. So, after all the political posturing and bluster, the good news is it looks like the Conservatives are, in fact, proposing a carbon price, just don’t call it a tax!

Alberta once proudly declared it was the first jurisdiction in Canada to price carbon — a truth now lost on many Conservatives.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...nt-call-it-tax

And now the movie to follow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9IeR3SPsYc

There are dozens of ways to skin a cat Gilroy.

Me?
I might slap a very hefty toll on the 401, and all major highways for example.

Unlike many politicians I’d wouldn’t give a crap about the howls from the GTA. How’d the last attempt at road tolls there go. The GTA talks a good game, I’ll say that much.


I’d be thinking about ways to skin the same cat. Without crushing people that can’t afford it.

An awful lot of the 401 outside the Gta. Like 95%of it. Try taking #7 from Ottawa to Windsor. Do we tax the 400 to North Bay or #11 a lot further than that? How about #69. Do you think that a travel tax on highways would only affect the GTA? How about someone in your neck of the woods taking #12 to the 401. How dare someone living in Port Hope or Milton take the 401 to work in the GTA.?Cut off your nose to spite your face? Lol

And many more Gord. Ottside and through Ottawa, MTL, Calg, etc.

The point in case you can't grasp it is.
People in major cities are some of the biggest polluters.
people in major cities have cheap Nat Gas. Do you have any freaking idea at all, what it cost to heat a home with Hydro, Propane or Oil?
People in major cities have access to public transportation.

Port hope to the city?
I worked with a guy for twenty years that lived in Cobourg. There's this green friendly thing call Go Train service.
You were saying?

But why aren't that they doing that?
Well because there's too many votes to lose

Sounds to me, that like most people in the GTA...Anyone but me. And on those rare occasions where it would hit you harder you dont like it. But would actually be "fairer" ( remember that word)?
Gas plants? << Talk good games, but when it comes time to walk the talk.....

Lets not also forget, that all those highways move goods. The most in North America. to which you and I benefitted greatly. Now we can tax the gas trucks use, or slap hefty tolls on the major highways. Call it 6 of one, half dozen of another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The entire world shut down..business closed, air traffic grounded, no tourism, greatly reduce commuting to work (massive unemployment)

And yet according the world watchers of Co2 emissions, we only dented the total by 9%....

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7

So to all you Greeny's out there...Canada’s Paris target is to reduce GHGs 30 % ( Co2 is 81% if GHG) from 2005 levels by 2030. And going to spend $Billions trying to to it.

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Since the 'Forum Fool' has discounted this single source....I'll add more evidence to the scientific consensus that while the world was crippled reducing Co2 emissions has had little affect on climate change:

Quote:

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According to preliminary estimates by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), the annual global carbon dioxide (CO2) emission reduced 4.2-7.5 per cent in 2020.

WMO’s Global Carbon Project has estimated that “during the most intense period of the shutdown, daily CO2 emissions may have been reduced by up to 17 per cent globally due to the confinement of the population”.

But there is not much to cheer about: WMO calls it a blip on the planet’s uncontrolled emission scenario.

At the global scale, an emissions reduction at this scale will not cause atmospheric CO2 to go down. CO2 will continue to go up, though at a slightly reduced pace (0.08-0.23 ppm per year lower).

The natural inter-annual variability in CO2 emission is 1 part per million (ppm). It means the impact of the pandemic on CO2 reduction is not significant and not even higher than the natural variability figure.

“This means that on the short-term the impact of the COVID-19 confinements cannot be distinguished from natural variability,” according to WMO.

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/...-warming-74362
[/URL]

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Quote:

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[/Q• At its peak in April, regions responsible for ~90% of global fossil CO2 emissions were under some level of confinement
• Aviation decreased by 75%, surface transport by 50%, power generation by 15%, industry uncertain but ~35%, small
increase in residential buildings of 5%
• Global lockdown induced large drop in emissions, 3-months 8% and peak drop 17% unprecedented, dropping to levels last observed in 2006. At their peak, emissions in individual countries decreased by ~27%.
• Emissions from surface transport accounted for almost half (43%) of the decrease, industry & power together accounted
for 43%, & aviation 12%.
• Drop in CO2 emissions had no detectable impact on atmospheric CO2 or climate change
• It is extremely small compared to the emissions accumulated so far, and compared to the emissions cuts needed to
tackle climate change.
https://unfccc.int/sites/default/fil...rce/1.GCP_.pdf

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I know these results don't support the Liberal Carbon Neural plan...but in the greatest experiment the world has ever conducted, reduction of global Co2 emissions has been negligible..all 3 independent studies sited, agree the reduction to be at around 9%.

So the social engineering experiment by the Village Idiot (make us drive less or pay more) is going to have "0"..'ZERO' effect on Co2 emissions.

Your right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glen

Your right.

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Well your welcome but really the thanks' must go to Erin O'Toole pushing for the Paris Climate change and a new carbon tax, supported by Alberta the original proponents of the said tax.

And lest I be met with some silly reply about politician's not wanting to give vote rich urban centers any reason to whinge.
https://globalnews.ca/tag/john-tory-road-tolls/

/looks at the 401, 427, dvp, and many more on any given day. If JT and the liberals were truly concerned about changing driving habits and using a "tax" to do it.
And for people that don't have tons of pocket change, there are buses, subways, streetcars, Go Trains, buses from Oshawa to Yorkdale, and Barrie. If I'm not mistake there's still a via train from PTBO to Union and sooooooooooooooooooo very much more.

/looks like Tory wasn't actually willing to lose his job over it and that yes, you talk a good game G but when it comes time to ante up :)
funny that.

This is going to crush people that don't exactly have money to spare. Especially these days, and in the years to come.

And as for the Carbon Tax rebate...as per the Conservative slogan for ."Not as Advertised"..last years Carbon tax rebates:

Quote:

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When announcing the carbon tax rebate program, the federal government estimated the average payment would be $248 in New Brunswick, $300 in Ontario, $336 in Manitoba and $598 in Saskatchewan.

As of June 3, the average payment is less than those amounts,: $174 in New Brunswick, $203 in Ontario, $231 in Manitoba and $422 in Saskatchewan.

The federal government forecast paying out a total of $2.1 billion in climate action payments, and has paid $1.75 billion to date.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/average-...ests-1.1270353

So they misled the Canadian Public again

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And as I said earlier...using Turbo tax s/w (the standard) the rebate, mine was much less than that...$30.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

And as for the Carbon Tax rebate...as per the Conservative slogan for ."Not as Advertised"..last years Carbon tax rebates:



And as I said earlier...using Turbo tax s/w (the standard) the rebate, mine was much less than that...$30.

---

Wait until you get the O'Toole carbon tax.

Always more taxes [emoji1787] Trudeau is pushing for the digital tax he wants to tax American tech Giants and add more taxes to use it in Canada. More taxes before we are out of this pandemic mess.


Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

That too Mike, the "rebate" is per household.
Living in the country we get an extra $40. Thank god I dont have kids that work part time, play hockey, etc
/points at the extra mileage we both do a year. LCBO runs are 20 min, not 2. Groceries, doctors, friends/family, you name it :)
/points at people in the country not driving eco friendly Micra's. Its almost all trucks and SuVs. Country roads, snow, fewer plows and sanders ( not salt for us). Could that explain why fewer ended up in ditches...


We just had our Propane filled last week Dec 9th. So my statement is handy.
Jan: $607.8
Feb: $476.4
Mar: $535.0
May: $499.5
Dec 9th, 2020 : $501.80

I wonder Gord, if it cost you $2,620. to heat your home each winter.

Thank god, when I moved here in 2016 I had a good paying job in the city. Had the $6,000 it cost me to take the forced air electric furnance out, and put in a more wallet friendly propane.

The Carbon tax on that $2,600. Give or take a few bucks $124.00
The HST tax on that $2,600. Give or take $330 of it.



Lol, you just have zero appreciation for how spoiled and pamperred you are G.

I have absolutely no qualms with trying to change the way we live. Wouldn't even mind some forms of taxes, etc.
But do it right, dont hit the very people that can least afford it. And, take into account the fact many don't have cheaper alternatives.

Road tolls should be a no brainer....But dont want a bunch of people to whinge....too many votes to be lost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Wait until you get the O'Toole carbon tax.

---

There's zero issue with addressing climate change. There is issue with Trudeau making promised in Paris that he can't keep, handing them billions of our money, which ZERO will go to actually address our own carbon emissions, taxing us on carbon consumption where we have no choice (what should I do, put my furnace down to 14'C?? I already have a high efficiency furnace, and insulated to the sky on my house, all energy start windows, etc) ... WHAT the bloody heck should I do??) And GET THIS ... here's the kicker ... show me HOW that carbon tax has led to a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in Canada? I'm waiting ... TRUDEAU's SYSTEM IS BROKEN .... he's nothing but a fraud.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

That too Mike, the "rebate" is per household.
Living in the country we get an extra $40. Thank god I dont have kids that work part time, play hockey, etc
/points at the extra mileage we both do a year. LCBO runs are 20 min, not 2. Groceries, doctors, friends/family, you name it :)
/points at people in the country not driving eco friendly Micra's. Its almost all trucks and SuVs. Country roads, snow, fewer plows and sanders ( not salt for us). Could that explain why fewer ended up in ditches...


We just had our Propane filled last week Dec 9th. So my statement is handy.
Jan: $607.8
Feb: $476.4
Mar: $535.0
May: $499.5
Dec 9th, 2020 : $501.80

I wonder Gord, if it cost you $2,620. to heat your home each winter.

Thank god, when I moved here in 2016 I had a good paying job in the city. Had the $6,000 it cost me to take the forced air electric furnance out, and put in a more wallet friendly propane.

The Carbon tax on that $2,600. Give or take a few bucks $124.00
The HST tax on that $2,600. Give or take $330 of it.



Lol, you just have zero appreciation for how spoiled and pamperred you are G.

I have absolutely no qualms with trying to change the way we live. Wouldn't even mind some forms of taxes, etc.
But do it right, dont hit the very people that can least afford it. And, take into account the fact many don't have cheaper alternatives.

Road tolls should be a no brainer....But dont want a bunch of people to whinge....too many votes to be lost.

---

Remember, there is HST on that carbon tax, so your HST is actually on $2724, so about $354.

We live 64.8km from Ottawa core yet we are considered urban and part of Ottawa with respect to the carbon tax, so we do not get the "extra" rebate. We are less than half that distance to NY state and 2/3 of that distance to Brockville yet Brockville gets the "extra" rebate and we are still considered Ottawa.

And no doubt Medium density on your Hydro rate :)

If you cannot afford to live where you do. Move. I think most city apartment dwellers, would love to live in a single detached house in the country, but they can't afford it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

That too Mike, the "rebate" is per household.
Living in the country we get an extra $40. Thank god I dont have kids that work part time, play hockey, etc
/points at the extra mileage we both do a year. LCBO runs are 20 min, not 2. Groceries, doctors, friends/family, you name it :)
/points at people in the country not driving eco friendly Micra's. Its almost all trucks and SuVs. Country roads, snow, fewer plows and sanders ( not salt for us). Could that explain why fewer ended up in ditches...


We just had our Propane filled last week Dec 9th. So my statement is handy.
Jan: $607.8
Feb: $476.4
Mar: $535.0
May: $499.5
Dec 9th, 2020 : $501.80

I wonder Gord, if it cost you $2,620. to heat your home each winter.

Thank god, when I moved here in 2016 I had a good paying job in the city. Had the $6,000 it cost me to take the forced air electric furnance out, and put in a more wallet friendly propane.

The Carbon tax on that $2,600. Give or take a few bucks $124.00
The HST tax on that $2,600. Give or take $330 of it.



Lol, you just have zero appreciation for how spoiled and pamperred you are G.

I have absolutely no qualms with trying to change the way we live. Wouldn't even mind some forms of taxes, etc.
But do it right, dont hit the very people that can least afford it. And, take into account the fact many don't have cheaper alternatives.

Road tolls should be a no brainer....But dont want a bunch of people to whinge....too many votes to be lost.

---

Well after years of lugging around 100lb tanks of propane at the cottage for the last 18 years I decided to get two tanks by Ultramar (Parkland Fuel,Red Deer,Alberta). So two 420lb tanks.

I ran my cottage on this from April until middle of September this year and went from 80% down to 40%,which in effect meant both tanks were still half full when the delivery guy came. Total cost for propane this year $260.00 approximately.

So I avoided three trips to Bancroft ,burning gas in my van, loading and unloading and even came out ahead in the cost of the propane. I also got my buddy up there $50.00 of his delivery because he recommended Ultramar.

Just for fun at home

Jan: $133.86
Feb: $162.90
Mar: $129.69
Apr: $94.93
May: $ 95.12

December 2019 $117.54 (My 2020 not in yet); $734.04

A good tax bash but how true lol.

Slips this pandemic in and it's a perfect time to force the agenda . Everyone gets coal for Christmas [emoji301]

Sounds like a problem Justin is going all in . As I would say double or nothing right [emoji12]

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...stmas-stocking



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More lies and to think ford is going along with the coronavirus the say lol. Then to not understand how climate tax will work lol to funny .

Hahah all jokes. They said they would use the money pay for the future of electrical charging stations and to work on global emissions . But apparently we are getting it all back so who wins or who is lying there socks off. As my last post all jokes from the crooks at the top. Is climate tax our new investment lol. I spend a thousand more and get 2 thousand back[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

And to think the we scandal's is a charity noone was paid untill Trudeau's family was involved . It's a charity yet they payed them well all scams from the top crooks . So sad .

Just more agenda force .

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...ster-says.html

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

If you cannot afford to live where you do. Move. I think most city apartment dwellers, would love to live in a single detached house in the country, but they can't afford it.

---

Couldn't this same statement be made for many reserves which are costing taxpayers so many millions every year?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnjyb

Couldn't this same statement be made for many reserves which are costing taxpayers so many millions every year?

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HaHa..I was just saying that last night watching a story about a reserve that has had 'boil water' advisory for the past 25 yrs...and wants the colonialists who oppress them, to fix it.

I would think when you supposedly 'live off the land' and the water where you live isn't fit to drink you would have moved long ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnjyb

Couldn't this same statement be made for many reserves which are costing taxpayers so many millions every year?

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Yes you are correct. If you agree with one, agree with the other. So we are in agreement, if you cannot afford to live where you do, don’t complain about the cost of things, move.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Oh well you can tell that to Condo owners in Canada who will see massive increases in their maintenance fee's because Lloyd's of London are getting out of insuring these buildings because of the number of claims and now they have to be at the mercy of "market forces" and get ripped off in the meantime. Just a simple example of what we are going to pay either way.

Have you checked your home insurance recently? You understand there is no cap on this in Ontario? Hold onto you wallet.

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So are we going to get back to this nonsense you are trying to peddle? That article you posted is a pretty pathetic attempt to back up your statement. I not sure that article says what you think it says. I really doubt that Lloyds is getting out of commercial building insurance.

Are you also attempting to link extreme weather events to man made climate change?