Interesting if hunting will be considered an exercise during the new stay home orders?
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Interesting if hunting will be considered an exercise during the new stay home orders?
I have a feeling it will depend how far you are from home when they stop you. I'm sure it will be tested in court eventually.
From the Ontario Public Health...No mention of fishing or hunting but judging from what I see below we should be fine to fish and hunt.
https://files.ontario.ca/moh-enhance...1-01-12-v3.pdf
• No person is permitted to use an indoor or outdoor recreational amenity that is required to be closed
• Outdoor recreational amenities permitted to open, subject to conditions, include (weather permitting):
o Parks and recreational areas
o Baseball diamonds
o Batting cages
o Soccer, football and sports fields
o Tennis, platform tennis, table tennis and pickleball courts
o Basketball courts
o BMX parks
o Skate parks
o Frisbee golf locations
o Cycling tracks and bike trails
o Horse riding facilities
o Shooting ranges, including those operated by rod and gun clubs
o Ice rinks
o Snowmobile, cross country, dogsledding, ice-skating and snow-shoe trails
o Playgrounds
o Portions of parks or recreational areas containing outdoor fitness equipment
o Tobogganing hills and skating trails
Refer to subsequent slide for public health and work
A permitted outdoor recreational amenity may only open if:
• Any person who enters or uses the amenity maintains a physical distance of at least two metres from other person using the amenity (excluding
members of the same household)
• Team sports, or other sports or games where people may come within two metres of each other, are not practiced or played within the amenity
• Any locker rooms, change rooms, showers and clubhouses remain closed, except to the extent they provide access to equipment storage, a washroom
or a portion of the amenity that is used to provide first aid
Ski hills are closed
I think as long as you're wearing one of those sports head bands your good to go. Because everyone who see's a guy wearing one thinks he's doing some kind of activity to make him sweat. LoLQuote:
Originally Posted by dean.f
As long as Canadian Tire lists 'Hunting and Fishing' stuff on their essential items list to buy during the lockdown, it must be OK. LoL.
Essential items are defined as:
• food and beverages;
• food preparation products; **
• personal care products such as soap and dental care products;
• health-related products such as prescription drugs and vitamins;
• mobility or assistive devices;
• baby and child-care accessories such as diapers and formula;
• household cleaning products, safety devices, batteries and lightbulbs;
• outdoor winter apparel such as jackets and boots;**
• personal protective equipment for the workplace;
• pet food and supplies;
• postage stamps;
• cellphones and cellphone accessories;**
• parts and supplies for all types of motor vehicles and watercraft;
• major household appliances; **
• hunting, fishing and trapping supplies;**
• tools and hardware;
• materials for home maintenance, repair or construction; and
• property maintenance products.
Sweat band.......check
Attachment 41337
they havent restricted traveling between cities, YET, so I assume were fine.
I think it will follow shortly after though.
All my hunting spots within 20min of home. I'll still be going. Anyone asks im going to do essential varmint control.
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ODD released a statement last night that there will be no impact to hunting or fishing (except rule of 5 for outdoor gatherings). Not sure about today and any change to that
I went through the new things like crazy, thought they impacted child care but they do not explicitly ban in home, just school based child care.
There does not seem to be that many changes except limiting hours of some stores and increasing mandates on masks. It is a "stay at home order" that does not tell you to stay at home as the number of exceptions is vast. Parks are not closed, nor are outdoor rinks, as long as social distancing and or masks are used, if people do not abide by this than these places can be closed. Many parts and trails have been used as a meet up spot for many families, honestly surprised they are not closed. Gun ranges and rod and gun club operated ranges are not closed either.
This is not as harsh as March, but I live in an area that has almost no cases and we are locked down the same as TO, seems like a kick in the teeth for doing everything right all along.
So my son and I can still go hunting?
i mean, if im in the middle of the forest hunting not close to anyone, i think thats still better than the people going to parties every weekend.
X2. This "regulation" has been left with more holes than a fishing net. Discretion is being left up to individual bylaw enforcement and police personnel. How can they be expected to enforce this nonsense without clear,concise guidelines? Gee,what could possibly go wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
Legal parameters are being laid out now by Ford on the news.
EDIT: it still sounds more like suggestions than any actual new laws.
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I think they are trying to give power to the LEOs to actually do something other than warnings for the obvious BS that is going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
I think, behind the scenes the Cops are starting to push back....it's irrational to do this to people in a Free and Democratic society who are protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Most of what they will be forced to do will NOT stand up in court in the aftermath.
It all hinges on can the provincial Government substantiate it being an 'Emergency' ...and as we have seen, if you study the data and the numbers..ie: in my area with only 27 'cases' in a population of 173,000 does not constitute an 'emergency'.
Quote:
Logically, emergency orders may only be made during an emergency. The conditions for what constitutes a state of emergency are high. It is defined under the Emergency Measures and Civil Protection Act (EMPCA) as “a danger of major proportions that could result in serious harm to persons or substantial damage to property.” A state of emergency also requires that the government’s normally available resources (including legislation) may not be reliable or may be insufficient.
Fishing and hunting is allowed, as per a news release within the last hour from OFAH (after consultation with gov't.) Fish and hunt on...
https://www.ofah.org/covid19/?fbclid...X78rEjxLeb5Rsk
No, it is not here, but the grey zones in and around Toronto showed that they will travel, so we get screwed because of people who have the virus and probably not knowing it, going to other areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
The state of emergency will allow more charges, which may stop people from doing things like getting together with friends who just arrived from the UK and brought the new strain with them. Or the people that rent an Air B&B and have a covid party of a couple hundred people. I do not suspect they will stopping you when you are out for a walk to ask you where you are headed, at least I do not expect that.
You are correct, many of the charges would not stick if challenged, but they people have to challenge them and deal with all that crap, which most don't want to do.
because people travel to your area... again doesn't constitute an imminent danger to you or your property..if so then the Fed would send in the Army to stop the traffic flow..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I wonder if a constitutional lawyer (firm) could submit a class action challenge for all those 'tickets' and get a blanket immunity once all is said and done.
At $1k to $1.5K a pop I think more people will submit challenges. Can you imagine how long it will take Provincial courts to see all the challenge to tickets issued, accumulated over a year, from this debacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I don't think very many people want to go to court, so the majority will just abide by the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Well I don't want to take any chances so I asked the farmer my son works for to give me a letter that he works Saturday and Sundays at 4:30 AM. I really do not want to be bothered getting in an argument with the Police.
When money is significant...people will fight for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I got a moving violation ticket a couple years ago for $460. I took that to court. What they do is have you sit with the prosecutor pre-trail. You plead guilty with explanation. I proved it was entrapment and had the fine was reduce to $80. Took all of 30 minutes with him then 30 minute with the judge. Saved $380..that's not chump change to a person on pension .
Why would anyone pay a $750 fine for being out and having a cop tell you what you were doing was not 'essential'...they can't prove by definition what is essential for you, so it's a no brainer.
When rules are arbitrary ( as these are) you have the right to speak with a Judge and challenge them...to give up that right insults those who fought and died to give us them.
here is that link from CTV news with the Lawyer offering advice on what to do if stopped and fined:
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?clip...ylistPageNum=1
Yep, clear as mud?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Here`s another clip where the chief does an exemplary job of dancing around the issue. Laughable at best!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hGre8uIfg
Ford says "use your best judgement" - to a group of people that voted in Ontario Liberal governments 2003-2015.
How's do you think this is going to work out????
This is about the provincial government being put under immense pressure by doctors to do something. We are hearing every day the sky is falling. The easy thing to do is to hand the bag full of dog poo to the police and they can immediately become the main subject of scorn and anger. There is a diplomatic dance going on already with some Chiefs asking for "enforcement direction". That is pushback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
I think peoples concerns about cops following you around in the forest trying to give you a ticket are misguided. Same goes for people suggesting they will be checking for out of town plates near lakes and ticket you for ice fishing. I am confident they have better things to do.
Now, if you are gathering as a group of 10 people on the side of the road without masks and planning the next coyote drive, or are on the ice having a fish fry with 15 of your buddies, and someone calls the cops...
I am proceeding business as usual. I will still go out calling coyotes, training and running my dogs, and I may even drive up to Cooks to try for some perch (alone) if we ever get some decent ice.
I intend to continue as usual,picking up scrips,getting groceries and heading for the woods. If a bylaw officer or cop has a problem with that,I'll see them in court.
couldn't agree moreQuote:
Originally Posted by dilly
Responses from government to clarify the rules -as provided by CTV news:
Can you go fishing for the day?
While the government has not provided specific guidance on fishing, it says that exercise is considered an essential reason for leaving your home.
“What that means will be unique to each individual Ontarian,” a government official said in an email.
The government suggests that Ontarians consult their local public health unit or municipality to understand what recreational amenities are open in their community.
Businesses that produce agricultural products by hunting and fishing remain open.
IMO, I plan to fish while obeying rules regarding max group sizes and social distancing. Common sense should prevail.
Well, were out here now, huddled around our fire with splake on the ice singing koombaya.
Whoever wishes to hide inside, I'm proud of you. Whatever the rules, be good little sheeple and obey! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1e6dcdc87a.jpg
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Good luck hope you enjoy the dayQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
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Good for you, but not sure why you feel the need to insult people who are just discussing what is lawfully allowed. Everyone can make their own choices and live with the consequences. Should not concern you enough to feel the need to call people names.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
If I had the time and wasn't so far I would take a trip up there, Maybe the end of Feb when I go to get me some smokes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
No Michael you did not prove it was entrapment because you actually pleaded guilty and all you did was to get the fine reduced. The CrownQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
won and as it was a moving violation you may have also lost demerit points.
Wow ..wrong on all counts...I hear you were a Mall Cop so maybe just not up on all the possible scenarios that could have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
I didn't insult anyone and the fact that you say I did is quite insulting...ha. nope, sorry, my skin must be a little thicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
In reality though, it was a statement and not an insult. This whole covid thing is garbage, no two ways about it. Masks, shutdowns, stay home and immunization doing nothing and here's a whole bunch of people hanging on every word spewed by the morons (thats an insult) running things.
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When you do, let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
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One of my favorite customers was St-Francis Memorial in your neck of the woods. Spent many hours chatting with Melissa Bishop's mom (Alison / head radiology) who worked there until she retired. My wife went to Opeongo High with her. Small world..... When things went into overtime I would take a cabin at the Spectacle lake lodge for R&R.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Small world for sure. I hope you took in the food a Spectacle while there then complained to the chef every time. My wife was a chef there for quite some time. There's a good chance that we may have met as well given all my down time years back was spent there on upkeep by day and beer drinking by night.Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
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and do you think that the previous pandemics were conspiracy's as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
The political CYA responses aren't a conspiracy by any stretch,but,they sure are steeped in massive amounts of media driven bullshyte.Quote:
Originally Posted by G.S.
Can you point out where I said something was a conspiracy? Please, help me out.Quote:
Originally Posted by G.S.
Its complete garbage is what it is, anyone with a brain can see a simple rules like "keep Toronto in Toronto" and "stop flying planes full of sick people into the country" would have made far more of an impact.
Instead we have tools filling both levels of government that really don't give a good God damn about the people, just the votes.
Let's actually take what people are being told by government out of the equation....
People mask up, infection numbers climb.
People get shot full of God knows what and still get Covid, its happening in Britain right now. We destroy all the small businesses in little towns due to a lockdown even though these little towns have ZERO cases...... why, because Toronto will be there with a care package of Covid.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
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So what would those complaining about the response to the pandemic , by the Conservative Ford government, do? If they open up entirely ,ignore the health professionals, many deaths would be blamed on them, and they would be unelectable in Ontario for many years after. No matter who was in power, they would be dammed if they did, and dammed if they don't.
Like OakNut said...Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
The push back; there is no need for the whole province to be in Lock Down...just the 'Hot Zones'.....Quote:
anyone with a brain can see a simple rules like "keep Toronto in Toronto" and "stop flying planes full of sick people into the country" would have made far more of an impact.
That would also mean, keep people from coming into Toronto. What would you do with essential workers living outside Toronto ? Most members of MTP, live outside the boundaries of the city. What about coming into the 'city' to use hospitals , or big box stores? If you want to be fair..... if those in Toronto cannot leave the city, then those in small towns must not leave their small town as well.
At this point it time, with T.O. being a Hot Zone...not to many people from small towns are heading into the GTA...Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
The do NOT travel unless it's essential still applies.
The "Hot Zones" went from Toronto and Peel to anywhere that was an easy drive and radiated out from there. Waterloo had no real issues with the virus until TO and Peel were locked down, then they just drove down the 401 and infected those in Waterloo. This is why small town Ontario is locked down, just stay the F home.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
FYI
ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS & HUNTERS
Since our update yesterday, the OFAH continues to be flooded with questions from people wanting more clarity on whether or not they can go fishing or hunting.
We get it. It isn’t black and white when it comes to outdoor activities. It can be confusing, and even seem contradictory at times. While the Government is telling people not to travel for non-essential reasons, fishing and hunting are still permitted activities in Ontario. So while you wouldn’t be fined for legal fishing or hunting activities, you could be fined if an enforcement officer (police, conservation officer, by-law officer, etc.) deems your trip to be non-essential travel.
Unfortunately, this means the OFAH cannot tell you whether or not you can go fishing and hunting, or whether or not you would be fined for doing so. It is up to each individual to make a decision of whether or not they should go fishing and hunting based on their individual circumstances.
If someone decides to go fishing or hunting, our advice is to follow all public health guidelines. Stay as local as possible, and do not make any stops to and from your fishing or hunting location. If you are in an ice hut, it must only be with members of your household. If you are outside, it must be in groups of 5 or less, and physically distanced from people outside of your household. It is also highly recommended that you wear masks around anyone outside of your household. Again, you may follow all of these public health guidelines while fishing or hunting, but it still may be deemed that your travel to do so is considered non-essential.
The OFAH will continue to keep our website updated as much as possible at www.ofah.org/covid19 and www.ofah.org/covid19/faq/.
Sorry if I have miss-interpreted; you sounded like the whole Covid stuff is all BS, which would be a wrong understanding of what are we dealing with. This thing is dangerous & evolving.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Fully agree that the government's response has been beyond patetic. Inefficient easy-paths taken due to incompetence and self-interests. And this seems to be the norm, all-around. But again, not big surprise here.
Well put. To do anything else (except for solitary or limited accompaniment outdoors fitness and mental health activity) is a half measure usually to no avail.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Same thing happened in Chatham-Kent. Our numbers were consistently low until Windsor-Essex locked down. Lots of people headed to Chatham-Kent...our numbers went up !Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
They closed all the small independent businesses herding most of us to Walmart and Costco...Makes no senseQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
There is only the scenario you provided, you plead guilty and paid a fine and were convicted of some violation.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I think its safer than standing 6 ft. apart from strangers at the local take out, grocery store, drug store, Costco, Walmart or fueling up at the gas station and most work places.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
people need to get out safely to exercise or just get fresh air, as long as its not with others I don't see a problem. Like usual no one ever thinks of the outdoors person that hunts and fishes and its just overlooked when they describe acceptable activities. They say they are keeping parks and rinks open so people can use them safely. its also good for mental health especially when so many are locked in alone right now.
If you can skate on a local rink with strangers I think one should be able to hunt on a few acres with there son/daughter Lol.
YES - Completely open all businesses - that is the first thing I would
- massively increase healthcare staff in hospitals (if possible)
- set up ICU wards to deal any increases in hospitalizations...NOT CASE counts fear
- Provide financial supports to those most at risk to aid them to stay at home
- My priority would be recovery of Small and Medium Size businesses , which are the drivers of the tax economy.
- Ignore the health professionals - yes- they only bolster his needs for the narrative of CYA politically.
- Fords responses since July have been, and are, purely political in nature and based on polling with an election 16 months away - this has been terribly harmful to the people and for economy of Ontario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Before Christmas when Toronto and Peel were locked down the malls in Burlington and Niagara were jammed with GTA people that just did a 'road trip' to get their Christmas shopping done. The clowns at Limeridge Mall actually (in a round about way) advertised that they were extending their mall hours due to a higher demand - inviting the Toronto and Peel shoppers for a COVID fest.
Politicians knew this was happening and could do nothing about it. Even if someone did received a ticket by regional police or bylaw, there would be a pile of lawyers working on class action law suits (Our Charter of Rights and Freedom) and would take care of the fine pro bono. That is why they put everyone in a lockdown - punish everyone for the actions of a few. Yet again........doing what is easy and not what is right.
I think we should put the military surrounding Toronto, nobody in nobody out for 5 years. Also make them grow their own food as we will not be sending in supplies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
I am all for that. Circle it like a toilet ring..Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
The irony is, they're so vain, they would think it was to keep us out. Haha..Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I have long said Toronto is out of touch with Canada.......but the issue is they have too much political clout (too many seats). I say we keep Quebec and Alberta and separate from Toronto and let them do their own thing - they do anyway.
Are you going to separate from the rest of Burlington and your Liberal neighbours John.Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
Terry.......I would love to do that but we have way too many silly servants that reside in Burlington. I have probably another 10 years and then I cash out and I'm outta here. Until then I just roll my eyes and shake my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Well you need to start looking for that property NOW because in 10 years you might be doing a straight swap, there is still room for you up in Coe Hill if you move fast but I got to warn you they are all Conservative's up here except me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
It's little different than the spring when H and F were "permissible", but the province and many Muni's just closed access to a lot. So technically we can. Access???
Boat launches, Trails, Public parking places, camping on crown land etc.
As for the city. See why many boat launches were closed, or why places like Barrie started jacking parking rates in the summer.
6,500,000 people. If just 10% are bad apples. That's still a boat load of bad apples.
Are there things that could be done?
yep, but would take political will. Something no politician has when it comes to the gta.
So like always, other area's get the shaft. I mean seriously, think about what this is doing to Ski Hill owner/operators, Hut rentals for ice fishing...IF, and it's a fairly big if, if they start easing back on Feb 11th. So that's the best case. Half the season is wiped out.
Resort owners in NE and Northern Ontario?
Many are thinking this is now Armageddon and that there's little chance the border will open by the end of next summer (when hopefully 60% of the population is vaccinated).
What are you trying to post?
Looks like spam
I kinda figured but working off my phone at airport. Hard to read my screen.
Gee GW, I thought a computer guru such as yourself should be able to pick up that that spam?Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
I'm in an airport, as well as doing a meeting on the phone.
Flight boards in 10 back to Toronto.
I can only do and type so fast on a phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose