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I've been reading how high velocity, usually Spitzer type bulletsdo more damage to the meat than heavier slower round nose. Also that the heavier bullets, when well placed will stop the animal better, sort of like being hit with a sledgehammer vs ice pick. Does anyone have practice experience with this? I've decided to start reloading for my 303 British and am considering using heavier, round nose bullets like the Woodleigh 215 gr to see how they work. Any thoughts?
I know from my experience hitting a deer with a 460 gr bullet drops them in their tracks and very little meat damage. :)
You don't get the 'snot' with heavy and slow...
I've shot a whack of deer with 150gr .303, never really saw to much meat loss. But I think the snot factor is due more to velocity than bullet weight.but shot placement also has a lot to do with it too.
You have to look at impact velocity, 25-2700fps seems to be the max where fragmentation and that jelly event seems to happen.
Witnessed in the same year, 30-30 150gr at 2400fps, 30-06 180gr at 2700fps and 270 win 130gr at 3000fps, all under 50 yards, all hit in the lungs. The 30-30 had the least meat damage, the 30-06 was worse, the 270 destroyed most of the shoulder meat, not by bone fragments or by the bullet but just went to jelly, an ooze almost. All 3 deer were just as dead.
The 303 Brit 180gr bullet, no matter the profile is moving at around 2500fps, with the 150gr bullet moving at around 2700fps, neither of those bullets will blow up an animal. 3 years ago I got a big doe with a 303 Brit Winchester 180gr spire point, she was quartering away, I put the bullet through the liver, clipped the heart and 1 lung, the bullet exited the brisket and lodged in the knee breaking it, there was minimal meat damage and a very dead deer.
The only thing I have shot with my Enfield was paper
It can kill a lot more than that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
my dad used Remington expander sabots during the controlled hunt and omg the damage was crazy. 1 whole side was ruined and the bullet went right through and damage the other side as well.
year before that we used Remington acu tip and there was barley any damage
I've taken a ton of deer and moose with my 7 mag using Partitions and see far less meat loss compared to the '06. A lot can and does depend on where you hit the animal and bullet construction. I'll stick to spire points any day in my .280 and 7mm because first and foremost, I want a dead animal. Meat loss is secondary.
I dont think you need to be terribly concerned about this with a 303 Brit. Shoot a deer with just any about any 303 Brit load and its going to die if you hit it in the right place. Miss the shoulders to avoid the excessive damage.
As for killing faster and sledgehammer vs ice pick stuff, I dont really buy it. I shot one deer with a 270WSM and it fell over like the hammer of Thor struck it. It doesnt get much faster then that. Other deer I shot with the ol trusty 3030 and they also died. Hit them where it matters and they'll die quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCaper
I shoot a 205 grain cast bullet in my .303 British I run the bullet to around 2,000 fps, at the range I shoot (under 100 yards) it seem to work well. The tissue damage with a boiler room shot on deer is mostly internal the entry and exit wound were a little over .30 caliber. There is no fragmentation that you can sometimes get with a jacketed bullet breaking up, At that range the bullet has a bit of a wobble as it usually does stabilize under 100 yard so it does sufficient enough damage. It impacts around 1,700 ft-lbs. The other good thing with a heavy bullet is at longer ranges they are better at maintaining energy than lighter bullets, because their killing energy is in their weight, while lighter bullets rely on velocity to generate their killing energy and bullet velocity decays over longer distances, bullet weight doesn't.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
I have similar result with accutips on several deers ( very clean kill with minimal meat damage ) however buddy shot a nice 9 pts with Federal Trophy copper 3" was devastating broke 4 ribs (2 at entrance and 2 exit wounds) clipped the front shoulder (the exit side was pretty much blood shot meat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
Been hunting for 60+ years and a butcher for over 50. Can't begin to remember the 1000s (yes, 1000s, not 100s) of deer, bear and moose i have processed in that time and the most damaged example was a caribou my uncle shot with a 7mm mag Remington. Entire front quarter was jellied with bruising still evident down into the loin. A total mess beyond belief.
All in all-i belive whole more important is where you hit the animal, then with what.
As said before-heavy bone hit will mean lot more damage.
At the other hand ,there is no universal bullet, and no universal outcome either.
Shoot what your gun likes ,what your shoulder can take,and aim accordingly
Strong stout bullets,low velocity bullets will be more forgiving to a degree-so they will do better job at bone hits.They have to be on heavier side-as mentioned earlier too.
But they may not give you all the range or all the clean shots you desire.
At the end ,we shoot to kill the animal as quickly as possible-while very importand-it is still secondary(to a degree)if the meat damage was greater then desired.
Quick question, are you using hard cast or hardball to reduce expansion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
I used to worry about meat damage and aimed just behind the shoulder for a double-lung shot. After a few tracking jobs and the anxiety that goes with them, I switched to a high shoulder shot that gives me bang-flops pretty much every time. I do find, though, that slower bullets still kill well, within reason, and do cause less damage. However, because I generally hunt fairly open country, I prefer to carry a rifle that will kill dependably at 300 yards, which for me means a higher-velocity round.
I have shot deer through the shoulder at 20 yards with a .280 Remington and I'd estimate the meat loss at 4 or 5 lbs, which I'm not bothered by. Mind you, I'll have that deer hung up and skinned ASAP and have all that jelly and bloodshot out of it quick as possible; it's a lot harder to clean up if it hangs for a long time before it's skinned.
I can relate to that, I bought a 7 mm rem. mag. because I didn't think my 30-06 was killing moose dead enough, a big cow moose with 2 calves walked out facing me about 75 yds. away and I shot her in the brisket, the whole carcass was bloodshot from one end to the other even the hind quarters were totally bloodshot, I don't remember exactly what bullets I was shooting but I think it might have been 175 gr. rem. core loks. this was back in the late 1970's anyway that was the end of the 7mm rem. mag. I sold it as soon as I got home. Have shot approx. 20 moose since with .280 rem with various .140 and .150 gr. bullets with swift scirocco and barnes being my go toes for dependabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Earle
I'm sure you will get good penetration, but the hammer of thor effect may not show itself. Shot placement can make up for speed if you want it deader...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnCaper