hunting niagra conservation areas

So doing a little look around and found an interesting conundrum. Seems hunting is allowed at several niagra conservation areas however there is a restriction on dogs.
As I read the rules retrievers are allowed however all other hunting dogs must be on leash. So who came up with that rule? anyone hunt there and can verify if thats true?
Can't see hunting my dogs on leash. It effectively eliminates all pointers, flushers and beagles. :confused:
https://npca.ca/images/uploads/commo..._2020_-web.pdf

Retrievers are flushers first ,retrievers second

Just teach your setters to retrieve and you're all set :)

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Originally Posted by Couliewalker

Retrievers are flushers first ,retrievers second

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As the policy reads
• Retrieval dogs for waterfowl hunting only. No other use of
hunting dogs permitted, to prevent disturbance of other
animals and hunters.
So flushing not allowed

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Originally Posted by vom Dufenshmirtz

Just teach your setters to retrieve and you're all set :)

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she can hold her own
https://live.staticflickr.com/1858/4...e4ccbb98_z.jpg[url=https://flic.kr/p/2aKJb6f]

The regulation reads Retrieval dogs off leash for waterfowl hunting only. Other use of hunting dogs permitted on leash, to prevent disturbance of other animals and hunters.. I wrote them several years ago about this crazed ruled stating that it would be unsafe to hunt with a leashed dog, and further that conservation of game is the retrieval of game after being shot. I told them that they recognized the importance of a dog on water to make retrieves but they failed to recognize land. In addition I see they have raised to administration fee to $40.00 and require a harvest report.. I was responded with a letter that it would be presented to administration. The only users for hunting now are archers for deer. One may note that the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Authority administrator was under fire several years ago and left and was hired by the Niagara Region and it became under fire for hiring practices... Seems to be trend of bad politics in the Niagara Peninsula.

It’s been a politically charged $h!t-show at the NPCA the last several years. The staffer behind the hunting rules has no actual understanding of hunting and no interest in learning. Dogs might be a topic for Niagara area hunters to revisit with the new Board.

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Originally Posted by ninepointer

It’s been a politically charged $h!t-show at the NPCA the last several years. The staffer behind the hunting rules has no actual understanding of hunting and no interest in learning. Dogs might be a topic for Niagara area hunters to revisit with the new Board.

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are you glad you moved??

All that rule does is favour deer hunters . Imagine hunting rabbits with a beagle on a leash. How stupid are people!!!

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Originally Posted by Frank16

All that rule does is favour deer hunters . Imagine hunting rabbits with a beagle on a leash. How stupid are people!!!

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Often it stems from well-intentioned people in positions who wish to minimize disturbance in what are usually critical habitats, especially in a southern Ontario context. Educating them about how hunting dogs are actually used is key.

There are a few thing's in conflict here IMHO that I would point out, firstly the chart for the area clearly states what type of hunting is allowed and where ie small game..

https://npca.ca/images/uploads/commo...bined-2018.pdf

So small game would be allowed in certain area's let say for rabbits with a beagle. According to their chart they also state the following:

"All hunting must be conducted in accordance with provincial and federal hunting regulations"

If rabbit hunting is allowed with a beagle you have followed provincial law.


Next comes their POLICY part which read's for dogs ie a beagle " Other use of hunting dogs permitted on leash, to prevent disturbance of other animals and hunters".

So they will allow you to use a beagle off a leash to hunt rabbits. LOL

Now comes the definition of POLICY that at common law is "A policy is a set of principles to guide actions in order to achieve a goal. A 'government policy', therefore describes an objective or course of action planned by the Government on a particular subject. ... Policies must always comply with existing law"

So their POLICY does not comply with existing Provincial law as it seeks to be" Ultra Vires" of that law.

So what could be the ramifications of hunting with a beagle off leash in one of the area's where you can hunt small game.

I suppose on complaint by a citizen towards such a hunter, the LEO OR CO could lay a charge under the trespass to property act for "engage in prohibited activity on premises" my defense of course was that I was in compliance with provincial law as stated in their chart and did not agree with their POLICY as it was "Ultra Vires" of the existing laws which is in the common law definition "Policies must always comply with existing law".

I don't know if your argument would hold up. Although yes you can legally hunt game with a dog its not defined that off leash is mandated. I'd have to double check but aren't blood tracking dogs for deer to be leashed? There are some care and control regulations that might also pertain.
I can understand the need to demonstrate care and control of your dog in a multiuse area I'd be happy if the guide line was amended to read leash or e-collar.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

I don't know if your argument would hold up. Although yes you can legally hunt game with a dog its not defined that off leash is mandated. I'd have to double check but aren't blood tracking dogs for deer to be leashed? There are some care and control regulations that might also pertain.
I can understand the need to demonstrate care and control of your dog in a multiuse area I'd be happy if the guide line was amended to read leash or e-collar.

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Well a hunter cannot hunt rabbits with a leashed beagle, the "policy" states you must have the dog leashed. So off leash is mandated that you cannot do it which flies in the fact of Provincial law.

The only care and control regulations would be bye laws for "dogs at large" but then there again they are allowing retrievers to be at large but not beagles.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

Well a hunter cannot hunt rabbits with a leashed beagle, the "policy" states you must have the dog leashed. So off leash is mandated that you cannot do it which flies in the fact of Provincial law.

The only care and control regulations would be bye laws for "dogs at large" but then there again they are allowing retrievers to be at large but not beagles.

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There in lies the problem. A hunter can hunt rabbits with a leashed beagle although its at best extremely difficult and impractical. For your argument to work you'd have to rely on a regulation that mandates that only unleashed beagles are allowed to hunt rabbits. As it stand I believe the regs says you can use them but doesn't spell out how.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

There in lies the problem. A hunter can hunt rabbits with a leashed beagle although its at best extremely difficult and impractical. For your argument to work you'd have to rely on a regulation that mandates that only unleashed beagles are allowed to hunt rabbits. As it stand I believe the regs says you can use them but doesn't spell out how.

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Hunting with any hounds for rabbits or any other game implies they must be off leash just by the form of hunting ,a dog scenting a trail and barking. The regulations do not state how you use them as its common sense and the use is traditional over the centuries, so common practice. Same for retrievers off leash for ducks and small game.

This Conservation land "policy" is just that ,it is not law and does not supersede Provincial law.

To further strengthen a hunters case if a "township" license must be purchased in that area you would be in an even better court position.

then according to your interpretation if a landowner gives you permission to hunt their property however they say the dogs must be on lease you can say forget your policy and I'll still hunt your land?

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

then according to your interpretation if a landowner gives you permission to hunt their property however they say the dogs must be on lease you can say forget your policy and I'll still hunt your land?

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Two different types of landowner IMHO. A Conservation authority manages public land on behalf of the Province and set's out a policy it would like to be complied with. A private land owner you become a guest on his land and he would set the rules. If he told you to leash your beagle when hunting rabbits on his land you would probably not hunt there. The Conservation authority set up rules saying you must be in compliance with provincial law but then decided to add in some of its own policies. They are not consistent, you cannot say a retriever can run off leash, but a beagle cannot run off leash.

The law does not state whether the dog is to be leashed or not. Unless you can find it, I believe it just states dogs can be used. Yes regulations do exist be it requirements for bow and arrow for game, firearms for big game, heck even restriction on guns and ammo for turkey. They are specific and both inclusive and exclusive.
Your argument hinges on the fact that the law specifically states dogs are to be used off lease. Yes its traditional and so forth but really is a protected right?
The vagueness in the law may not support your argument.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

The law does not state whether the dog is to be leashed or not. Unless you can find it, I believe it just states dogs can be used. Yes regulations do exist be it requirements for bow and arrow for game, firearms for big game, heck even restriction on guns and ammo for turkey. They are specific and both inclusive and exclusive.
Your argument hinges on the fact that the law specifically states dogs are to be used off lease. Yes its traditional and so forth but really is a protected right?
The vagueness in the law may not support your argument.

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The reason the law is vague in relation to the hunting regulations is because its common sense, hunting dogs are used off leash. The only exception being using a dog to track and find big game after its wounded.

A Conservation authority cannot have it both ways or tailor the law to its need's.

It states in their booklet I linked to the forum that Provincial laws apply, but then lets a hunter use a retriever off leash but not a beagle.

So basically if your using a retriever you are good, if your using a beagle your suddenly a trespasser on land you have paid a permit fee to be on and your in compliance with the provincial law.

So the question to me is can a Conservation authority mandate what activities you engage in on public land and so supersede a Provincial Law.

A few times a summer and fall,I go hiking and mountain biking with the grandkids in The Ganaraska Forest. In the fall,I run into upland hunters who are using dogs,letting them do what dogs do off leash. More than once,they've been warned by GRCA staff that letting dogs run off leash is a big no-no,no matter whether they're hunting dogs or not,no exceptioins. Most CA's are the same way.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

A few times a summer and fall,I go hiking and mountain biking with the grandkids in The Ganaraska Forest. In the fall,I run into upland hunters who are using dogs,letting them do what dogs do off leash. More than once,they've been warned by GRCA staff that letting dogs run off leash is a big no-no,no matter whether they're hunting dogs or not,no exceptioins. Most CA's are the same way.

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What would the charge be?

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

What would the charge be?

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Municipal bylaws in Clarington and The City of Kawartha Lakes--dogs running at large.

I’d fight that charge. I run my dogs on e-collars. They are not “at large”.

Not being argumentative Trimmer, just saying.

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Originally Posted by dilly

I’d fight that charge. I run my dogs on e-collars. They are not “at large”.

Not being argumentative Trimmer, just saying.

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The leash requirement is to maintain care and control of your dog. An e-collar would essentially fullfill that requirement and still be in compliance of the intention of the policy.

Municipalities in almost all cases can not wave provincial laws but they can expand on them at their own discretion and make them more stringent. Game laws are here for a reason, to be used and adhered to in conjunction with common sense.
If I have an empty highway, common sense says I could go faster then the speed limit without hurting anyone, but I am still not allowed.
I do understand that a beagle is not going to chase a rabbit with a 6' lead, but the reasoning behind the leash law is to protect all people from the odd idiot that has no common sense with his untrained rotty or pitbull that he says he is hunting with. All he needs is a gun and some orange and his dogs can go run wild.
Sadly laws are mandated to protect all but common sense and respect are not.
John

Rules- laws, are made because of the lowest common denominator, not the highest.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

I don't know if your argument would hold up. Although yes you can legally hunt game with a dog its not defined that off leash is mandated. I'd have to double check but aren't blood tracking dogs for deer to be leashed? There are some care and control regulations that might also pertain.
I can understand the need to demonstrate care and control of your dog in a multiuse area I'd be happy if the guide line was amended to read leash or e-collar.

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If an advocacy approach is to be made, I would suggest leaving e-collars out of it. We can try to educate and say "beeper" or "static stimulation" all we want, but those outside of the dog world will only hear "shock collar". Put that in the rules and the local animal rights crowd (which is very vocal) will erupt.

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Originally Posted by ninepointer

If an advocacy approach is to be made, I would suggest leaving e-collars out of it. We can try to educate and say "beeper" or "static stimulation" all we want, but those outside of the dog world will only hear "shock collar". Put that in the rules and the local animal rights crowd (which is very vocal) will erupt.

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One would have to assume they have enough on their plate shutting down hunting if that was the case. I'd imagine they would be in favour of freeing dogs from their shackles and allow them to run free

It states in their booklet I linked to the forum that Provincial laws apply, but then lets a hunter use a retriever off leash but not a beagle.

So basically if your using a retriever you are good, if your using a beagle your suddenly a trespasser.


That's just racist LOL