camp solar

Good day all. I know this has been talked about in the past. But it has been awhile. I have finally decided to go solar at the camp, as we need a fridge and coolers and ice are not doing it any more. since the propane one gave out after 40 years. I can get a 10.5 fridge that uses 300 kw a year and we are running a 60 watt 32 inch tv with 7 lights at 9 watts each. I was going to get a system with two panels at 330 watts each, with two crown 6 volt batteries at 275 amp hours each with a 2000 inverter. We also have a 6250 generator if needed. With batteries and the system we are $2000 in. we would like to slowly expand on the system every year. As i know absolutely nothing about solar but am learning a lot on line. Does this seem like a good set up or am i way off base before i spend money i don't kneed to.
I would like to pick up the system components next week if this is the way to go.
Thank you all as always, for your input and knowledge. Don

Don’t forget the charge controller epever makes a decent one for a reasonable price. Make sure you get a mmpt controller

I’ve got a similar system 2x320w panels 4 batteries similar to yours. Running a 10ft3 fridge lights and computer and phone charger. I keep as much as I can running 12v and only use the inverter when necessary as they draw power as well

Other than a week of grey days I get by ok. If there is a few hours of sun I get fully charged. But I reposition my panels to get maximum sun which helps a lot on low sun days

With a generator available get a decent battery charger and you have a great back up for days that are low on sun

A good quality fridge made for off grid (like a unique) will be much more efficient than a cheap fridge from a big box store. But much more money.

Less efficient means more solar or generator needed so I’d plan on a larger charge controller than needed now so you can add if needed

The solar shopping mall in Mississauga often has off spec solar panels for a very good price. They are fully functional but no warranty. Mine are 3 years old and still perfect

I had a similar setup at my previous hunt camp.
I found that the solar panels were not very efficient in the early November period of the deer hunt and had to run the generator in the evening.

So, my suggestion to you would be to get a couple of 12 volt deep cycle batteries Group 29 for just a little over $300. Tie them in parallel.
You can feed a couple of hundred watts of solar panel to them.
Install your 2,000 watt inverter and a smart battery charger on them.

**** Caution**** A reverse bias from the charger will damage the inverter. You must disconnect the inverter when charging. Ask me how I know.
I installed a simple bypass switch to go from inverter to generator to prevent that problem.

Run off the inverter during the day and charge your batteries while running the generator in the evening.

Honestly, just buy a 3,000 watt inverter generator for a little over $1,000 and make good use of it.
It will provide plenty of power for your needs, safe for all sensitive electronics and cheap on gas.

Thanks Fishhog That is were i was going to get my system .And thank you for the tips

Than you impact I
was wondering about the generator and charging. I don't think i could run the Genny 2047 for the fridge that's why i was going to go solar.

Personally I don’t want to listen to a generator run at my camp any more than absolutely necessary. Solar maintains the piece and quiet that I go north for

I think your system is a good start. I’d plan to eventually double up on your batteries and solar panels if necessary once you see how thing work for your needs

Order the book "The Renewable Energy Handbook" by William Kemp. To understand your needs (AMP Hours), is one thing, to understand battery lifespan (or cycles), is another. As a general rule of thumb when designing a battery bank and solar system is this:

If you need 200 Amp hours of storage per day, then times that by 3 or 600 Amp hours of Storage, then times that by 10 or 6000 amp hours of storage. That example is extreme, but what many dont understand is life cycles of batteries and state of discharge sequencing to lifespan of your most expensive replacement cost. Many dont understand a 12V battery is 50% discharged at 12.4V, and fully charged battery is around 14.4 to 14.8V, so the discharge cycle is based on staying within the top 10% of fully charged status 13.9V to 14.2V volts to get 10+ years out of a battery bank. LIPO, Lead Acid, AGM and Sealed AGM doesn't matter if you are under stored in AMP hours.

The key is to design a battery bank with at least 10 times the daily expected draw, so as to not kill your battery bank quickly. Now you can have an unpowered battery bank if you use a genny to keep the batteries topped off all the time.

The second issue the average daily hours of sun needed to fully charge that bank after each night. That means solar collection capacity to recharge the battery bank in a given day. The average winter solstice sun only provides 4 hours of usable sun to recharge battery bank, summer solstice increases that factor to 6.5hrs. So in effect the sun shines for 12 hrs in summer, but without a tracker system you only get half of the full power of the sun. So during the peak output you have to collect and store that energy to keep the batteries topped off, or go into higher discharge state, more genny time, or start turning stuff off.

Add up the amp draw of the items you listed and post that number and I will give a recommended KWH of solar and battery storage. If not, there is lots of solar calculators online to achieve the same expectations.

Mark - Former Owner - Turbine Construction - A wind and solar design build company - off grid living. I sold the company in 2015.

Thank you my thinking at this time,more concerned with running the fridge. For $450 for the fridge and new solar for $2000 would be the price of a new propane fridge. And every year add a bit more power.

Agreed on the fridge, Sunfrost makes the best fridges for offgrid life - they have almost 4" thick insulation and top mounted compressors so heating from below is not a factor on performance. MPPT controllers are best option along Pulse Wave Modulation PWM panels which cycle between 12 and 72 watts depending on sun strength for most efficient charging as possible. Without a ground mount tracking sytems you shold be manually adjusting panels 3 times per year

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Originally Posted by FishHog

Don’t forget the charge controller epever makes a decent one for a reasonable price. Make sure you get a mmpt controller

I’ve got a similar system 2x320w panels 4 batteries similar to yours. Running a 10ft3 fridge lights and computer and phone charger. I keep as much as I can running 12v and only use the inverter when necessary as they draw power as well

Other than a week of grey days I get by ok. If there is a few hours of sun I get fully charged. But I reposition my panels to get maximum sun which helps a lot on low sun days

With a generator available get a decent battery charger and you have a great back up for days that are low on sun

A good quality fridge made for off grid (like a unique) will be much more efficient than a cheap fridge from a big box store. But much more money.

Less efficient means more solar or generator needed so I’d plan on a larger charge controller than needed now so you can add if needed

The solar shopping mall in Mississauga often has off spec solar panels for a very good price. They are fully functional but no warranty. Mine are 3 years old and still perfect

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Line052 Thank you i will take you up on that. I think i have figured out the watts on every thing but i am not sure what you mean about amps i will go on line and figure that out

I still recommend Trojan T105 as best battery in the market for solar 6V @ 220 AMP and 30,000 discharge cycle and still only about $175 a battery. You build in banks of 2 X 6V equal 12V. You can always add later and like Impact said - buy the biggest inverter possible. Always equate 15% of all daily draw will be just run the inverter/charge controller, so dont forget to add to your energy budget calculations. Get 300amp fuses to go between battery and array...you get 1 chance to hook backwards..dont worry they arc themselves solid if you make a mistake, use stubby wrenches, so if you drop one, they dont fuse to top of battery..just saying. Experience is the best learner. Also be respectful of the absolute danger to AMPs stored and lethal "capacity" to kill you on the spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by impact

I had a similar setup at my previous hunt camp.
I found that the solar panels were not very efficient in the early November period of the deer hunt and had to run the generator in the evening.

So, my suggestion to you would be to get a couple of 12 volt deep cycle batteries Group 29 for just a little over $300. Tie them in parallel.
You can feed a couple of hundred watts of solar panel to them.
Install your 2,000 watt inverter and a smart battery charger on them.

**** Caution**** A reverse bias from the charger will damage the inverter. You must disconnect the inverter when charging. Ask me how I know.
I installed a simple bypass switch to go from inverter to generator to prevent that problem.

Run off the inverter during the day and charge your batteries while running the generator in the evening.

Honestly, just buy a 3,000 watt inverter generator for a little over $1,000 and make good use of it.
It will provide plenty of power for your needs, safe for all sensitive electronics and cheap on gas.

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SO understanding how many watts is absolutely required to derive how many amps will be used to run those appliances. A fridge compressor has a high AMP start up (5-11 Amp), but a low runtime draw < 1amp. Each appliance and or motor has rated AMP draw on a sticker. Overall all those draws add up total amount of APH (amp hours), needed to be stored. In your first you state 300KWH per year, so about 1KWH per day, or 1000 watts. The panels you have now would run that fridge all day everyday - and both probably produce up 12 AMPS in perfect sunlight. So during the day in perfect conditions - almost zero draw down from battery bank (if perfect conditions), so really on a sunny day, during the day they would be neutral draw/use, so at night and on cloudy days they deplete the bank as a default -neg energy loop input. The rest of what are using is minimal draw and maybe add up to 1-2 amps per day.

Depending on the voltage output of inverter and input of solar either 12, 24, 48, 72V you can maximize saving on cabling from array..Ex: 12V requires bigger AWG (#6), over 72 which you get by with #10 AWG. This might not be a factor for you, but on bigger arrays we pushed 48 to 72V solar bundling to increase voltage, to save on wire feed costs.

I will be off grid at new house in a couple of years. Just picked 40 X 185W panels for $60 each that were 5 yrs old, they will be connected to 4400 APH T105 battery bank at 24V, feeding a 3000 watt inverter eventually as a back up to grid, eventually taking all 115V appliances and circuits off the Hydro feed.

I ordered 2 X 100 Watt Renolgy panels for 12 X 16 Amish shed lighting, and running small appliances/tools with a 1500watt CTC pure sine inverter that I will be installing in a couple of weeks. 2 X T105, 6V arrive next week to power the system.

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Originally Posted by severn don

Line052 Thank you i will take you up on that. I think i have figured out the watts on every thing but i am not sure what you mean about amps i will go on line and figure that out

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Thank you again this sounds great and i can add later. your system sounds good. This is sure a upgrade from our oil lamps and coolers with ice during 40 degre temps of summer and running the generater at night kind of sucks.

If you really want a real world accurate reading of appliances 24hr AMP draw and Voltage draw get a Kill-O-Watt meter. Perfect for monitoring energy use of any plug in appliance. They are like $30 online, I have several.

Like Impact said - I got a Blue Sea 12DC fused distribution panel ($30 automotive) and ran all my LED lights, cell chargers, laptop, tablets, and even the 22" LED TV and any other 12V (cigarette lighter), directly off the battery saving power on inverter use/DC/AC conversion. Plus you can use 14 gauge auto wiring for electrical lines, I had regular wall switches running DC lights.

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Originally Posted by severn don

Than you impact I
was wondering about the generator and charging. I don't think i could run the Genny 2047 for the fridge that's why i was going to go solar.

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Mark is the expert but here is my humble opinion and all depends on your budget and yearly usage.
With a 2,000 watt inverter you will be pushing the limits with a fridge plugged in.
Guys bring all kinds of electric devices to camp and it quickly adds up.
Add a toaster, microwave and electric skillet and your way over the amp/ wattage limit.

I hate the sound of a generator as well when camping and tried solar panels but my wife insisted on a curling iron and hair blower sooooo.

Off grid, deep cycle battery takes care of lights, electronics for fridge and a small inverter charges cellphones, flashlights, etc.
Evenings, the very quiet inverter generator (yes they truly are that quiet) tops up the deep cycle battery and powers all other needs around camp. Run time is from dusk to about 10:00 PM.
The fridge is on propane.
Everyone is happy!

https://i.imgur.com/1m30ddN.jpg

Yeah if you need to use electricity to make heat (coffee maker hair dryer curling iron etc) you better have a huge solar system or a generator is your only option. Luckily I trained my wife to not need those comforts of home

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Originally Posted by severn don

This is sure a upgrade from our oil lamps and coolers with ice during 40 degre temps of summer and running the generater at night kind of sucks.

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I was surprised a few years back when we discussed this on how many guys need the generator running all night for their CPAP machines. Never heard of that years back...we just had to put up with the snoring. I ended up sleeping in the back of my P/U (with cap) more than once HaHa..

I do keep the deep cycle battery topped up with solar panels while parked at home.
The 45 watts total panels with a 7 amp max charge controller does the trick.
I bring the 3,000 watt inverter generator in the back of the truck when off grid.
More than plenty to power the AC and everything else in the hot days of July.

Happy wife = Happy life....lol

https://i.imgur.com/rn6zHaJ.jpg