chttps://www.foxnews.com/us/derek-chauvin-trial-verdict-jury-guilty--If I was a cop I wouldn't lift a finger to stop a criminal - you can't win
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chttps://www.foxnews.com/us/derek-chauvin-trial-verdict-jury-guilty--If I was a cop I wouldn't lift a finger to stop a criminal - you can't win
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
dont kill a guy maybe? over a fake 20$ bill?
There are those that like the power though, just today, OPP and a 12 year old.
https://torontosun.com/news/provinci...d-from-scooter
Maybe now the police down your way will keep in mind that they are not above the law.
As to your comment on not lifting a finger. It just shows the skewed view you have on the acceptability of police brutality.
Equality for all. No one is above the law.
This was coming for a long time ... unfortunately the checks and balances were not there, to deal with (discipline) problem cops ... problem cops are often repeat offenders ... they are comfortable with the system and get away with "murder". Ruins it for all the good cops, but on the other hand, if the good cops don't step up and call it out ... they are doing it to themselves.
Time to bring the power trip cops back down to earth ... been a long time coming. And I believe their training has a lot to do with it too ... good cops tend to have good training ... bad cops were trained to be "mean" and "aggressive", or they just don't give a crap about the training they received.
I'll wager there was a 'deal' made. They had to find him guilty or the BLM would have brunt the city down.
Find him guilty and then either send him to a Club Med facility for protection or put him into a witness protection program and hide him somewhere.
Solves both problems.
Well from what I saw he deserves it. I can understand a lot of roughing up in many situations but that was way over the line in my mind
Exactly, but if you need to train a bad cop on how to be a good cop then you have a major problem on your hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Canada could learn a thing or two on a speedy trial process.
Does not pass the smell test. At the 7:30 mark they load up the body on a gurney and off they go into the ambulance.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
If in distress or cardiac arrest paramedics would have attempted CPR on the spot.
Since when do paramedics wear body armor?
If deceased, an investigation would have commenced without moving the body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vksEJR9EPQ8
Yes he was guilty but 2nd degree murder - I think the defense made a mistake not letting him take the witness stand and explain what was going through his mind when all this was happening - cops are going to be afraid to use force in arresting people when they resist - what have they to gain but have a lot to loose - who knows if the jury was afraid to convict him of a lesser crime because of all the rioting and threats that some people were getting - the jury could see that on tv every night
Well you can lift a finger just don't stand on a guy's neck for 9 minutes. You may not have heard this JOE but that officer had been moved around 20 times in his career and apparently been on more than one department. He was a TRAINING OFFICER on the day of that incident, so God only knows how many other officers he has already screwed up by teaching them the wrong way. I believed he would probably go down for manslaughter but that was at the start of the trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Remember Sir Robert PEEL the founder of modern day policing THE POLICE ARE THE PUBLIC AND THE PUBLIC ARE THE POLICE.
The public on that jury just spoke and gave their judgement.
Well said! I'm really OK with the way the trial was held,the way the jury was charged and the verdict fits perfectly. The defense can't be faulted. How do you defend the indefensible? Although it did him no good,anyway,the smug,arrogant attitude in court likely did him more damage in the eyes of the jury. He's going away for a long time as long as the politicians keep their stupid yaps slammed shut. Having said that,I don't want to sound too uppity about it all. After all,James Forcillo gunned down Sammy Yatim and only got 6 years. People who live in glass houses.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Will get overturned on appeal. Big angry mob waiting for the jurors, how could they not come up with a guilty verdict.
When the suspect proved uncooperative and managed to exit the cruiser and lay on the ground? I suspect the knee on the neck was an effort to render the suspect unconscious so he could be more easily handled, unfortunately things went a bit to far, and the suspected ended up dead. Is it any worst than Tasering someone to death, in a failed effort to immobilize them so they can be handled? There is always another way of looking at matters. George's death may have been an unfortunate accident which might not have happen had he prove to be cooperative.
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
That is the EXACT reason there so many conflicts happen with Police...lack of respect for authority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Even Cris Rock knows that...(see his PSA below.)
The way he was restrained is the way the police are taught. If it wasn't for the drugs in his system and a bad heart, because of drug use, that method of restraint would not have killed him. Hey was talking the whole time, that means he was breathing. It stopped when his heart stopped.
If it wasn't for the ramifications and the threat to public safety dependant on the verdict, the out come of this trial would have been much different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx12Rox91ww
“Lack of respect for authority” period end of story....
Well said Mikepal!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry guys but I think you are stretching this a bit out of the realm of reality. The video is pure evidence that the prolonged knee on the neck was more than required. The whole situation could have been avoided if the officer had not felt the need to continue the knee after the victim fell unconscious. It was his own fault to continue unneeded force.
The verdict fits the crime. To say otherwise would be to agree with the outrageous notion that the actions of the officer are somehow acceptable.
The respect for authority idea would be more palatable if the body of officers self governed a little more. There are good people and bad people. The good need to speak up more when there is an offence that is questionable. This culture of sticking together in some kind of brotherhood only works if all the players are good to start off with. This is not the case as we know.
Clean up the culture of authority and people will find no reason to not respect it. Earn the respect, don’t blindly expect it, that would be entitlement.
The two main things I learned from this case
1- Don’t resist arrest
2- Don’t use Fentanyl
Your number 1 is a huge problem. Remember the apartment that the cops broke into and blew away a women whose husband shot back at the cops because they did not announce they were there?Quote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
There is no trust in the police by people of colour in the US and to an extent in Canada. Heck, as a white guy I had a cop come into my house without being given permission and threaten to arrest me for stealing and chopping up a car. The car was a friends, he had a fender bender and it was parked in our driveway to take the very expensive stereo out of it and the rims off it before he scrapped it. The guy got in the accident around the corner from us and not near his home, a couple hours away. I was threatened with arrest again for street racing another time, over the phone, because I picked up the phone at my fathers house.
I am just lucky I am white.
At the end of the day, LEOs are human beings too. Trying to do a job and go home to there family’s . You can’t have complete “Anarchy” ...animals don’t run the farm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Again Fox, as I recall the story of the woman being shot. There seem to be something about the warrant the cops were working under, or they got the wrong apartment. It had something to do with allowing them to do an unannounced entry. There was an exchange of gun fire between the cops and the girls boy friend and she ended up being part of the collateral damage. There was something about the boy friend dealing drugs, the cops busting in, and the boy friend treating it something like a home invasion, and offering a defence. I believe there was some rumbling that the cops may have gotten the wrong address. It was a stupid accident which happen as a .result of issuing a warrant to allow unannounced entry. .Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Absolutely right. The guy was cuffed, on the ground and other officers had him pinned down without cutting off his air supply. There was no reason to be kneeling on the guy's neck for an extended period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdbuff
What surprised me was the second-degree murder conviction which means the jury believed the officer intended to kill Floyd. From what I saw the evidence didn't support that.
Were I putting money on appeal I'd bet the second degree conviction will be overturned but third-degree and manslaughter will be upheld.
jWhen Floyd kept saying - I can't breathe - I think Chauvin didn't believe him - this term - I can't breathe - was used by demonstrators and guys resisting police for quite awhile - it stemmed from an incident in NYC where a cop put a choke hold on a black guy while he kept saying I can't breathe - the guy died and this phrase was used after that - I don't think Chauvin got a fair trial because of all the rioting and noted politicians saying he was guilty before the verdict was made - he was guilty of 2nd degree manslaughter but not 2nd degree murder - isn't it something that all these instances start with a black guy breaking the law - yes there are too many shootings by cops and yes some cops are just bad guys but we got to be careful least we end up with lawless rioters taking over society - in the news today there is a case where a cop shot a 15 year old black girl who was going to stab another back girl with a knife - should he have done that - you be the judge
You can guarantee that the verdict in this trial would have been more realistic if Floyd had been white..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Yes, and also because a cop on a power trip used excessive force. It's like fire ... you need three things ... fuel, oxygen and a spark. His lack of cooperation, although stupid, was only one part of the problem ... excessive use of force is what was needed to enable the incident to come to fruition. If cops used lack of cooperation as a reasonable excuse ... GOD HELP US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
2nd degree manslaughter for sure ... 2nd degree murder charge implies the jury believes he meant to kill him ... that is a judgement call.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
You wouldn’t have read or seen anything about the case, except for maybe a ten line article in page 30 of some rag....Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
lol the ignorance is unbelievable. the guy didnt have any weapons. he wasnt threatening ANYONE if you actually watched the trial you would see the cops footage, the first thing the cop did when he went to their car was pull his gun. he asked him to sit on the ground beside his own car. he totally complied sat there without a issue.
im basically seeing in these comments that because he didnt want to go into the cop car it was totally okay for the cop to kill the dude, youre acting like the guy had a knife and was trying to attack the cop. he was handcuffed with 3 guys' ontop of him 1 on his neck for 9 minutes which resulted in his death. the cops didnt roll him to his side to a recovery position to get air. when he was passed out cold no one did cpr, instead he didnt move from his neck. the god damn EMS had to tell him to get off of him because even when the EMS pulled up and got out of their truck he was STILL on his neck. multiple Minneapolis police trainers and lut testified saying what the cop did in the video is NOT what they train to do AT ALL. one of the trainers actually said " i have no idea what that is" on the stand.
so please let me know how this isnt murder?
I don't think the cop knew how bad a shape Floyd was in - why would you intentionally kill someone with all those cameras watching you - the cop misjudged the situation - he didn't intend to kill him - that's why I believe the murder charge was wrong -
This is a good discussion of the real issues that weren't played out in court...
She right...the US is now under "Mob Rule"
https://www.facebook.com/officialben...96910434537107
There were three officers on the scene all males, the suspect was handcuffed, if three grown men cannot get a handcuffed man into the back of a police car, maybe they should have chosen another profession.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
If you have your knee on someone’s neck for that long, even when they are motionless, you say that is not intent? What is it? ......Forgetfulness? Incompetence?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
Did you see how small the back seat of that car was ?? I’ll guarantee on my worst day, three couldn’t get me into that space without using pain or other compliance methods. These guys did not use those pain compliance methods, probably because of the optics, and knowledge they would be criticized !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Handcuff his legs carry him into the back, if three of them are not strong enough, paddy wagon. If no paddy wagon, transport by ambulance two escorts in back, in the end that is how he went.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
With a large, resistive guy kicking at you, while you try stuffing him into a small back seat......dream on Gilly ! When have you ever seen an ambulance used to transport a combative prisoner to lockup.....?Give me a break !Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
If it wasn't for a video, he'd continue on his power tripping ways. Why many of these types of abusive videos surface, we alway get to witness other officers participating or allowing abuse to continue, turning a blind eye?
So it begins ...Mob Rule:....they have no facts...but they show up on massse to protest:
Quote:
ELIZABETH CITY, N.C. — A North Carolina deputy shot and killed a Black man while executing a search warrant Wednesday, authorities said, spurring an outcry from a crowd of dozens that immediately gathered at the scene and demanded law enforcement accountability.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...nt/ar-BB1fTSDc
Rick, there were many other choices these officers could have made to get him in the car or to the police station. Obviously with all these other tools at their disposal they chose that the best way was the knee on the neck. The officers were in control of the scene and had options. They chose the profession and had training. If they can’t do the job......Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
No fentanyl + no resisting arrest = No death, no riots, no looting and no story for the media to sell
Good People in places of authority = respect = better moral = more trust = less suspicion = less death (accidents do happen) = no rioting = no lootingQuote:
Originally Posted by ysyg
The root goes deeper than just drugs and resisting.
Please... enlighten us ! What other options were there...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdbuff
roll him over to breathe? dont step on someone's neck for 10 minutes WHILE handcuffed and continue to do so after hes passed out cold with no pulse?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
youre telling me they couldnt leave him on the ground in a recovery position handcuffed without being on his neck?
is that not a "option"?
The “options” discussed were to get him into the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
Leaving a prisoner at a scene, and not removing them from the area is not an option. They were unable to get him into the car as he violently resisted.
Unless you have been in that position, you have no idea of the dynamics...
in the body cam footage from the trial they showed the officers getting the hog tie and ended up not using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
the officer on the neck was heard saying no hes staying right here.
i would think hog tie would be a option as well, for the size of George Floyd they had an officer with them that was the same size as him as well plus 3 other officers
Have you ever tried to apply a hobble to a big guy kicking at you ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4uCOAzrbM
this is why this conviction is such a big thing.
cops have been protected from being sued for a long time. its about time its stopped.
Cops have been sued plenty of times in the past...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
rarely being held accountable,Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
(sorry i didn't specify that part lol )
in America anyways, every cop is protected by something called qualified immunity.
1. Call for more back upQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
2. While he is unconscious move him
3. Taser if required
I don’t get the narrowmindedness.
The space in the back of almost every scout car with a screen is limited and has been for years. If the prisoner is a fighter and you get him in the back, chances are he/she is going to kick your side windows out. Your either OK replacing windows or your escort is in the back preventing that action. If that is not possible its wagon time.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
The first clue on the Floyd video they might have trouble was he clearly said "don't put me in the back officer I, am clast phobic, should have been a clue for the officers and there are guy's that are clast phobic. In Toronto I have seen ambulance's in the old day's transport prisoners many, many times. It was a favorite ploy of the old time con's to feign illness at the station get a ride with an ambulance and a rookie officer and try an escape. Not kidding.
Yeh, the guy is already handcuffed to his back, once he is on the ground especially on his stomach, it should have been a breeze for three officers to have done this.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Taser a handcuffed prisoner...against use of force policy. Backup ? Likely why they were waiting. The only real fault I would assess, is not getting him up sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdbuff
Yea, I’ve seen guys spitting out teeth by doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
If you want to talk about the old days, you put them to sleep. But, that hold is no longer available to officers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Another take on police use of force from a BLM activist....amazing !!
https://thepostmillennial.com/blm-ac...etting-stabbed
i just seen the body cam footage on tv, what the cop did was dangerous as hell. bystanders all around in front beside and behind that car, pretty wreAkless in my view. could have killed multiple other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Of course you know best....notwithstanding he likely saved that girls life!!! But hey, second guess the cops all you want, from your obvious vast experience !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
President Biden chimed in today saying he wants the training modules changed across the country to better reflect the realities of today. Now,WTH that means is anyone's guess,but,I can't help but wonder if those policemen would be Macho Man if the exact same scenario occurred 40 miles north of Bancroft at 0200hrs when some big dude tried to pay his bar bill with a questionable $20 with a two man unit and backup an hour away. By Jeezus,they'd learn to be policemen,then,or they'd get fed to the frickin' bears.
How about letting the handcuffed prisoner breath?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Very much doubt that and there were actually 4 male officers on the scene, it four guys cannot place a prisoner in the back of a scout car they should not be on the job,period.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
You asked for an example of when a ambulance had been used to transport a combative prisoner and I gave you one, what "hold" are you now talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Perhaps if you view the video again you might change you mind about the WHOLE INCIDENT?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
At the 42 second mark of the video, THE MALE BLACK seen in the video with the grey hoodie and blue jean's and who came down the driveway with girl shot, appears the HAND HER THE KNIFE before she goes after the second victim. That male then put's the boots to the first female victim who was still on the ground.
So the male suspect appears to me to have been rather fortunate here, when he had the knife in his hand prior to passing it of he could have been seen as a threat to the officer and when he booted the first victim in the back of the head while she was on the ground at the 47 second of the video?
https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/sta...1277828%7Ctwgr
My point is shooting into a crowd of people is dangerous, it doesn't take vast experience, just common sense to understand that?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
Well , I guess his training and actually being there, led to his decision the shot was safe. A good shot to boot I might add !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowjob
He obviously was in a better position to make that call, than armchair quarterbacks !
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
You're right...the video shows she was quite large and there was a car as a back drop...so yes, his 9mm wasn't going too far if it exited at all. :)