Tick Bite Information - 72hr Window Lyme antibiotics

Hey all
Some important information for anyone who finds a black-legged (deer) tick that has bitten them.
Just the other day, we pulled a tick off one of my family members. I went to our Public Health Unit website and found a link where you can send a picture of the tick for positive identification. They sent me a response within 24hrs.
Here is the link: https://www.etick.ca/

We got confirmation it was a black-legged tick that could possibly carry Lyme disease. It was difficult to find any information on our local health unit site other than "go see your doctor". I did some more digging and found a form you need to fill out for your doctor to submit the tick for analysis. (DONT throw the tick out! Keep it frozen in a ziplock bag.)
Here is the form: https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-...tion.pdf?la=en

***IMPORTANT*** In a random conversation with a buddy of mine, I found out that they have antibiotics that significantly improve your protection against Lyme Disease if you go to the hospital within 3 days of a suspected bite. We went to the hospital and the doctor confirmed this and we got these antibiotics. NOWHERE on our public health website is this information found - nor could I find it online. (Maybe it's a new thing?)

Anyways - I wanted to share this with the forum as hunters we are outdoors a lot in woods where these ticks are found. If this helps someone else - great. At the very least, there is now a website that can help you identify the tick within 24hrs and you have the submission form to save you time at the doctor's office. The nurse was surprised we came in with "everything already done". They treated this pretty seriously and said we were wise to come to the emergency dept to get the antibiotics. The doctor said it takes a month to get results to see if the tick has Lyme, so it's better to deal with it fast, rather than to wait to see if you have symptoms.

Stay safe outdoors everyone and good hunting.

Good info, but please know that the so called prophylactic dose of doxycycline they give is not a magic bullet. They reduce the risk of contracting Lyme disease, but they do not eliminate it. Also, there is some controversy that the use of these strong antibiotics at the start may not be good as they might mask the symptoms, like the tell tale bullseye rash you get if you are infected and give you an initial impression you are ok.

Bring the tick to your doctor who will determine the risk by asking you where you got bitten and how long you have had the tick on you. There are some areas that Lyme is more established and they know this. Also the longer the tick was attached the worse - generally 24 hours or more is not good. If you are determined to be high risk, then they prescribe the antibiotics and send the tick to be tested. You should still continue to monitor for symptoms like a rash of flu like symptoms up to a month after the bite.

Of course, the best medicine is not to get bitten in the first place and to make sure you check every inch of your body after you come home from where ticks are as you will not feel the bite.

Good point - however, the other alternative seemed worse to us. Wait a month to see if the tick has Lyme and hope for the best...
We are in an area that has Lyme, so better safe than sorry.

Good info and thanks for sharing.
I'm in an area that a recent survey showed 50% of the ticks carry Lyme disease.
I have submitted ticks in the past and thankfully they came back negative after taking a ride on my body.
My wife had one on her neck a few weeks ago but I pulled it out right away.
She was simply gardening at the time.

My nieces husband who lives nearby got terribly ill a few years ago after being bit. He was off of work for a while, almost a year.
Seems like if its not one thing its another.

Thanks Moosehead, very informative. Little buggers are everywhere now.

Thanks for the info guys

To bad the vaccine wasn’t embraced.

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/prev/vaccine.html

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Originally Posted by Cameracutter

To bad the vaccine wasn’t embraced.

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/prev/vaccine.html

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Apparently there is another vaccine that is going through the approval process .

Good to know and thanks for sharing ! I live in Norfolk County which is basically Ground Zero for Lyme Disease and have been bitten many times but always pulled them out within 24 hours. It's a nasty process to remove them and it leaves a hole in you that takes a long time to heal but a dab of Polysporin and a band-aid is how I treat it.

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Originally Posted by impact

I'm in an area that a recent survey showed 50% of the ticks carry Lyme disease.

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The default at the Local Hospital (Kemptville): they no longer collect the tic for testing. They treat you as if it was positive and give you the doxycycline if you know you were bit in the last 72 hrs.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The default at the Local Hospital (Kemptville): they no longer collect the tic for testing. They treat you as if it was positive and give you the doxycycline if you know you were bit in the last 72 hrs.

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Just a heads up on the doxycycline. I was bitten by a black legged tick about 14 months ago and was given a prescript for doxycycline. It messed me up bad. The Dr. (not my own) who gave it to me prescribed 3 times a day for 21 days. Damn near killed me. After 15 days I called my own Dr. and he told me to stop taking it. He said maximum dosage is 2 times a day for 10 days. More than a year later I still have bouts of pressure in my skull, blurred vision and sensitivity to sun light. Be aware..........Daniel

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Originally Posted by boogaloo

Just a heads up on the doxycycline. I was bitten by a black legged tick about 14 months ago and was given a prescript for doxycycline. It messed me up bad. The Dr. (not my own) who gave it to me prescribed 3 times a day for 21 days. Damn near killed me. After 15 days I called my own Dr. and he told me to stop taking it. He said maximum dosage is 2 times a day for 10 days. More than a year later I still have bouts of pressure in my skull, blurred vision and sensitivity to sun light. Be aware..........Daniel

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Wow. Our trip resulted in 2 big pills - that was it.... sorry to hear about your experience. Crazy that a bug that small can cause so much trouble whether it's reaction to treatment or Lyme itself. Pass the Deep Woods Off!

Two pills? I thought the standard was a full 10 days of doxy. I'd demand the full doxy regime or I go see another doctor. My first action if I find one on me is to determine if it's an Ixodes or Dermacentor tick that's on me. Ixodes is the one you have to worry about. If it's an Ixodes on me, regardless of species, I would go and get the doxy, regardless of how long it was attached. Every outdoor person should learn how to ID them. Usually it's an American/brown dog tick that I find. It does not transmit the Lyme bacteria.

Easy way to tell if it's Ixodes or Dermacentor - look at the scutum (the back plate). Dermacentor ticks are usually quite colourful, with a whitish cream mosaic pattern. A smaller , darker tick with no scutum colour raises my alarm. I then look at the anterior perimeter edge of the abdomen. Dermacentor ticks have a row of festoons (look like little beads) that rim the bum of the ticks. Ixodes is smooth. You can see all of this easily with a magnifying glass. Don't rely on the erethyma migrans (bulleseye) rash thing as not all people that are Lyme positive get it. Don't rely on survellience reports from your Health Unit to determine if there is a Lyme "endemic" population in your area. A data point is not logged on the federal Health Canada site unless it is a confirmed positive case. Assume that you have Lyme positive Ixodes ticks in your area. All it takes is a migrating bird to carry them throughout the area.
Don't assume the average emerg doctor knows more about Lyme than you do ! I'll never forget taking a student to Peterborough Emerg and the doctor refused to give her antibiotics. She had textbook bullseye rash, we had a fully engorged Ixodes tick from her, and she'd just come from an endemic area. We took her to Lindsay instead and they immediately put her on doxy. The Pineridge Health Unit then called to educate the Peterborough doctor.

If you want to know what us doctors know, here it is. The single dose treatment mentioned earlier is under 'Prophylaxis'. One dose of Doxycycline, 200 mg. It is recommended that all 4 criteria listed have been met to proceed with that treatment option.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...e-disease.html

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Originally Posted by Ouzel

If you want to know what us doctors know, here it is. The single dose treatment mentioned earlier is under 'Prophylaxis'. One dose of Doxycycline, 200 mg. It is recommended that all 4 criteria listed have been met to proceed with that treatment option.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...e-disease.html

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I'd be a rather unhappy and vocal camper in emerg if a doctor denied me a 20 cent dose of doxy simply because I did not meet all of the below mentioned criteria:

[COLOR=#333333]Prophylaxis


[COLOR=#333333]Prophylaxis treatment can be started if the patient meets all of the following 4 criteria.

1. The tick can be reliably identified as a blacklegged tick and is estimated to have been attached for more than 36 hours.
   
   • This is based on the degree of engorgement or by certainty of when the individual was bitten.
   
   
2. Prophylaxis will be started within 72 hours after the feeding tick has been removed.
3. The local rate of Borrelia burgdorferi infection in ticks is more than 20% (check with local public health).
4. Doxycycline is not contraindicated.

I bet many of the people who come into emerg do not have the tick for inspection. Even if you have the tick, how long does it take to submit the specimen to a lab for ID confirmation, and get the results back? Not sure how any entomologist could key an Ixodid tick out to species using the available taxonomic keys if the mouthparts are missing (probably common to have them missing on tiny nymphs when they are extracted). Again, I'd take the local tick survelliance data with the local health unit with a grain of salt. From what I've read, they only log a data point for positive clinical cases in humans after lab confirmation with PCR/western blot tests. Imagine the number of people living in Ontario with undiagnosed Lyme. Your vet will tell you about the three horses and 32 dogs that were treated for Lyme within half an hour of your house, yet the federal data says there's no endemic population of ticks. Take a look at the national border cases. You'll see hundreds of reported cases on the US side, then next to nothing only miles away on the Canadian side (different criteria for reporting, Canadian testing not accurate for all the serotypes of the bacteria that have evolved?).
What's the danger for a doctor to err on the side of caution and administer the single dose of doxy ? Last time I checked it's handed out like candy for up to one month doses for common UTIs, etc.

I agree that the 2 pill dose should be given on request, just to be sure, and most doctors will do that no problem.

On the other hand, the risk is so small when the criteria is not met, that the doctors are probably right in not recommending the 2 pill dose of doxy as it is a strong drug and could have some bad side effects.

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Originally Posted by boogaloo

Just a heads up on the doxycycline. I was bitten by a black legged tick about 14 months ago and was given a prescript for doxycycline. It messed me up bad. The Dr. (not my own) who gave it to me prescribed 3 times a day for 21 days. Damn near killed me. After 15 days I called my own Dr. and he told me to stop taking it. He said maximum dosage is 2 times a day for 10 days. More than a year later I still have bouts of pressure in my skull, blurred vision and sensitivity to sun light. Be aware..........Daniel

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I got very sick with it when using is as a Malaria pill, but they told me all the wrong things about it at the travel doc.

What the first doctor gave you would be grounds for a lawsuit for sure, not that you would win.

Doxy strips your body of all bacteria, it can mess you up and you have to take measures to counter the effects with good bacteria, but the wrong dose is not the drugs fault.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I got very sick with it when using is as a Malaria pill, but they told me all the wrong things about it at the travel doc.

What the first doctor gave you would be grounds for a lawsuit for sure, not that you would win.

Doxy strips your body of all bacteria, it can mess you up and you have to take measures to counter the effects with good bacteria, but the wrong dose is not the drugs fault.

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CBC says 24,000 KILLED by medical accidents and Canadian malpractice puts it at 44,000, here is the CBC.... and the anti firearm doctors worry about firearms.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/medi...-year-1.514758

When taking a new medication I like to google it and see what I can learn quick about it, I worked on a medical project over a decade ago for a Pharmacy related system and there is a ton or do's and don'ts and never's and instructions that are often on that sheet or paper they print. The doctor may have just wrote tid (three times daily) instead of bid (twice daily) or the pharmacist misinterpreted, a good pharmacist will check if they are suspicious other.... can't say.


You can't get Peremethrin in Canada EXCEPT in insecticide and for animals and at almost 20X to 30X the concentration of the Sawyer spray
https://sawyer.com/products/permethr...ent-treatment/
(.5%)

https://canadianrockiestrailguide.co...%20or%20abroad.


"Permethrin spray designed for use on clothing (0.5% strength) is not available in Canada, but it can be purchased online and shipped into the country (at considerable expense).

—Permethrin for use on horses and livestock (10% strength) is available in Canada. (Many outdoors folk purchase the agricultural-strength version and dilute it for their personal use.)

—The Government of Canada publication on Travel Health and Safety entitled “Insect bite prevention” recommends applying a permethrin insecticide to clothing and other travel gear for greater protection. It also states: “Although permethrin is not available in Canada, travel health clinics can advise you how to purchase permethrin and pre-treated gear before or during your trip.” (Presumably by making a shopping trip south across the border before you embark.)



As a non medical official I cannot recommend an action, but I know one of the local stores has it for spiders and I know the dollar store has spray bottles and small measuring cups (don't use the kitchen ones! if for no other reason your last view in life may be the back on an accelerated frying pan approaching your head :moose: ).

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Originally Posted by Ouzel

If you want to know what us doctors know, here it is. The single dose treatment mentioned earlier is under 'Prophylaxis'. One dose of Doxycycline, 200 mg. It is recommended that all 4 criteria listed have been met to proceed with that treatment option.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...e-disease.html

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Thank you. This is exactly what was done at our local emergency dept. We had the tick on-hand plus a positive ID that it was indeed a deer tick from the tick ID website (Bishop's University entomology). We were told it would take about a month to get test results from the tick re. Lyme.