I thought the draw results where this month ????
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I thought the draw results where this month ????
May 16th you can claim awarded tags
Thanks but would it say your successful know or on th 16
May 16....Quote:
Originally Posted by overtheir
I hope that they are able to provide some stats e.g. how many points were required by sex by WMU.
Yes that would be great if they did that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
Waiting anxiously for the 16....
I am looking forward to May 16th. I really like that we are going to find out that much earlier in the year if we are going moose hunting or not. Aug. 1st seemed way too late in years gone by. This is one part of the new system that I really like.
I would think that they will be able to provide those stats, but we won’t see anything until next year....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Menard
One more sleep then we find out
Nervous and excited......!!
Kinda like Christmas !!! Either way, I’ll be going up. It will be moose, or deer in the November rut.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntnmachine
Yes I was thinking about that today. Goof Luck everyone.
Results are posted, you can see if you were successful!!
21A with 6 points Bull my luck we just see cows
Bull tag for 47! I had 21 points. Our camp hasn't had a tag since 2009.
Well deserved .... congrats !!Quote:
Originally Posted by cramadog2
Bull in 19 with 6 points.
Thanks Rick. Wonder if we should include what type of firearm, so we can get an initial indication of what it takes to receive a tag in that unit. Mine is rifle.
I'd say you put in your time. Good luck. Are results for points required to certain WMU available online somewhere or just results for draw entry on personal account?Quote:
Originally Posted by cramadog2
18A gun bull 4 pts
Nothing for me this year. Of course,with only seven points,that's not a surprise,
Learn to call !Quote:
Originally Posted by overtheir
Unsuccessful; archery bull 27. 5 points
Our group got two bull tags for 19, going to give one back. waiting to hear from a buddy to see if he got drawn for a cow/calf in 19
If you give one back, you should be in good shape for a bull next year ..Quote:
Originally Posted by huntnmachine
That'll depend on success rates in that WMU this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
It will depend on lots of factors, but it still bodes well for next year....Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
As expected, no tags close to home.
Congrats to those that get a tag.
Predictably no luck in 63 bull archery with only one point.
Will be interesting to see how the draw plays out in the core units that have low moose allocations, I am betting some ties for points and a lot of disappointed hunters. Thinking units close to the south with low tag numbers say within 8 hrs of the greater Toronto region.
Betting this new system will not help much.
I drew an archery cow tag in 27 with 1 point. It will be going back in the pot though as our group also drew a more desirable tag.
Well we had a cow tag last year just seen bulls and I think they blocked my nunber when I tried calling themQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I applied to 27 as well with 1 point , however second choice and "all firearms" - not successfulQuote:
Originally Posted by CD94
I would imagine that bow only has a higher chance of selection in the system.
Congrats on the draw [emoji3526]
Forgot to mention my ( group) tag is with a firearm
15 points in 48 for the gun hunt no tag
Any of you tag holders out there: I am available to play really good bluegrass and country music, split firewood, tell horrible jokes and assist in other hunt camp chores. I have a great ATV and 4x4 pickup and can shoot pretty good if the moose isn't far away. If COVID is a concern, I can sleep in my truck - my wife makes me do it all the time...
No tag for me; 4+1 northern resident points, bull 15B.
no tag for us again in 28. One member has 16pts and still no tag! Brutal
150 bull tags or so in 2021and 2700 some odd hunters in 2020 applied for bull tags in 2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadeye
If the number of hunters was about the same over time, that should give about 1 in 18 odds - so 18 points should have got a tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckshot517
Not necessarily. It depends on the number of hunters applying. If there are a large group of hunters with enough points, there may be a random draw scenario, between that group of hunters. Next year, the stats will be available to indicate how many points were needed to be successful in each WMU, and each animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
That's why I qualified it with "if the number of hunters was about the same...".Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
And even next year - the stats from this year *may* not hold if the number of hunters applying changes. This will always be a variable to the nit-pickers.
But I suspect they will remain fairly constant and not be an issue.
Wow and you still didn't get a take with 15 points.
I didn't bother
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr meat
And next year could be just as screwy once guys see the stats and where their chances of getting a tag may increase, creating a surge in the number of applicants in the draw to certain WMU's. But eventually it should straighten itself out.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I dont think you will see alot of shifting. Statistically nothing has changed from before. They guy who hunts wmu 48 is not going to shift to wmu 4 where he will get a tag. Like Werner spelled out you can estimate what it will take, there will always be variables but with a little homework and the data they will provide next year you will see the predictability.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantgetright
bull tag 57 archery 14 points
Congrats, but one tag every 14 years? Sad, unless you go with a large enough group that you can rotate who claims a tag each year.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunter
Can the group combine their points to improve the odds or is that not allowed
From what I understand from the new points system is that it is all individual applications. No combinations allowed.
Great suggestion though. Would that not be great!
Lets see.... 4 hunters for 1 moose in Quebec. What a great idea as well! (sarcasm)
Max group size 10 hunters i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
No-it is not allowed- maybe it would be closer then to the old system then to the new one ....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Don't need to combine this new system is good as the old for me
I got a tag again the same area as in the past with 2 point ,
We going for a Moose hunt ...;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
In my opinion the catastrophic blunder/failure of this new system is not having group applications, you could still use the point system but allow a group application draw a tag and out.
The core moose units with 8 hrs of the GTA are still going to be a challenge to acquire a tag.
The units with low quotas and high applications will just increase in points every year, sharing a tag would at least give more hunters the opportunity to hunt.
I hope I am wrong.
Our group had one member draw a tag.
I don't like this new system at all.
No one has any idea how it will work as there are too many variables. With the guaranteed group size there was certainty that if you met a certain # of applications, the group would get a tag and you could safely plan your hunt every year. I am not sure what was wrong with that; moose hunting IMO is not a lone wolf activity.
Also it's not fair even to those with high point counts. If someone has 20 points and the WMU applied to say only needs 10 points for a tag, then is it fair that the point count should be reset to zero versus 10 points deducted? I think not.
Enjoy your moose tags those of you with high points as it will be a long time before you get another.
No - and that's a good thing. Part of the problem with the old system was including people who would never hunt in a group to get the minimum group size required to get a tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
If you want to hunt in a group - that's how you are expected to do it. Apply every year and only accept one tag per year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
Fundamentally that is the problem with this new system, ghost hunters just became more valuable as this point system moves forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I'm not sure I agree. "Ghost hunters" have effectively been eliminated with the new system. Even if a "ghost hunter" applies and gets a tag,they still must be present,hunting partners must still have a license and once the tag is filled,the hunt is over for everybody (unless someone in the camp has another tag.) "Ghost hunters" could always transfer their tag to another in the party which was the impetus for "ghosts" in the first place. Transfers have also been eliminated (save the most dire circumstances like the hunter with the tag dies),transfers are allowed ONCE and the transferee's tag count automatically resets to zero. This new system greatly tightens up data collection from who was issued the tag,for which WMU who shot what and when and hunter reporting data may be easily tracked and verified if need be. Filing false data like what happened in the past will have some significant consequences. I believe it needed to happen. There's no way the old system could be sustained without radical changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
Anybody who applies in the system has to have a outdoors card and a license so they qualify as a hunter, the new system does nothing to prevent this,Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Going forward the only thing that will matter is points.
Agree 100% trimmer
So as a somewhat new hunter, if I want to get a Bull tag in future, I should keep rejecting the calf tags to build up points basically ?
We have a group of 3 new hunters, one got a calf tag, others didnt. So trying to decide if we should use the tag, or skip moose this year in hopes of eventually getting a bull tag ?
other 2 have 1 point, the one that got the calf tag had 2 points.
The person has to actually go hunting. With the old system, people were buying tags for licenced hunters who had not intention of going moose hunting to get the group size large enough (wives, girlfriends, neighbours). If a non-moose-hunter got the tag, they just transferred it to someone who was going. The new system doesn't allow tag transfers. Once you accept the tag, its yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
If you don't want a calf tag, then don't apply for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ata83
If you are sure you want a bull only, then apply for a bull only.
A normal sort of logic that will develop over time for groups is that some of the guys (usually those with least points) will apply for calf tags so you can hunt every years, but some guys will build up points for bull tags.
Not without tag transfers, they're not.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb
This would allow you go and scout an area to prepare you for when you do have an adult tag so you wont be going in blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ata83
gibb
You have to have a valid outdoors card to to sign into the fishhunt licensing system to apply/buy license.
Hear Ya-but the matter of fact with the old system was-that there was about 70% of Ontario huntable moose range -no guaranteed group sizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
At the other hand -while this new system fixes some issues-opens up another ones.
I think the "ghost hunter"issue could have been fixed without this new system though. Just do not allow transfer.
This new system does not allow it anyway-so why they did not do it a whole lot earlier.
Our bigger problem is not this anyway-it is the lack of(or perception of the "lack of") moose.
I love this point system. It’s finally a fair system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
I guess I’m a lone wolf, haha
50% of Moose hunters in the past applied solo with the old system.
So you don’t find it fair that someone that went 20+ years without a tag now gets one?????
At the end of the day, there’s not enough Moose to go around. The new norm will be to go years without Moose hunting.
Large groups will still have an advantage in the long run.
Give it a chance, it’s the first go around..
How can you have a "Ghost Hunter" The holder of the tag must be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
I hear you Deer Hunter. I think its sad that someone cannot get a tag in 20 years and certainly deserves one. But like I said, the excitement will be fleeting as these hunters will now get a tag, but will be put at the back of the line again, possibly waiting another 20 years for another tag. Unless you hunt in a group, this means no moose hunting for most years. What fun is that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
I think GBK hit it on the nail - the real underlying problem is the diminishing Moose herds.
Reduced moose herds are likely the major issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
The success rate for party hunts is another thing that limits the number of tags.
While party moose hunting is a thing in Ontario and to a lesser extent in Quebec - most of the rest of the world doesn't do this.
If tags were allocated on an individual basis - and if people followed the rules - there would be a lot more tags to hand out.
I can see that coming to Ontario... or at least a limit (very small) to group sizes.
All those guys who would pay their buddies to go get their moose license to build up their group pool. Nothing like a group of 8 or 9 guys getting a bull and cow tag for an area that needed a minimum of 12 in the group for each tag, hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I think if You read my post again-you will see i never said the Ghost hunter should/could /would...Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Here on this thread some say-the new system fixes the Ghost hunter issue(Ghost hunter=ppl applied in a group- did not have intention to go, just to gain and transfer the tag-thus increased odds of a group getting a tag ).
And some said-this new system will fix that problem. No tag transfer allowed=no opportunity for Ghost hunter.
.
What i wrote is :
The old system COULD have done the same thing, if there WAS a rule in place-NO tag transfers.
No transfer-no ways of a Ghost hunter to succeed in helping the group.
If they implemented it NOW ,they could have done the same thing ,many years ago.
For whatever reason,they did not do this though.
ps-Just to keep in mind,the way the old system was set up,it was actually allowing "legal" Ghost hunters.
When they eventually realized ,this is an issue-they made restricting rules for tag transfer.
However-they COULD have just made a rule-NO tag transfer.
That is correct.
We have a group of 9 now one tag is good enough for our group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
You make it sound as they did something illegal, but all the so called "ghost hunters" were 100% LEGAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
They were accredited hunters and bought and paid the $46 license just like anyone else and they had a right to do with it as they wanted, even throw their tag in their friends' group application. Maybe there should have been a stipulation that they needed to actually go hunting LOL? Groups did this because they could and the MNR happily took their money.
As was said, they could have fixed it, if it needed fixing, by stipulating no transfers at all, then it would have eliminated the "couch" stay at home hunters as they could not have transferred their tags.
Your not a lone wolf. I agree 100%. I get why big groups like the old system but you had your turn for decades. Now we’re all equalQuote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
Would be fantastic if there were so many moose that we could all hunt every year but that’s not reality for a lot of reasons
Suck it up if your whining. It’s just the reality of our current situation and sorry if you no longer get an unfair advantage.
The point system will force older hunters out of moose hunting in many units. Some will stick around until they get drawn, but unless they hunt with a large group that can claim a tag on a regular basis, they will quit. Not many reasons for a 55 year old guy to stick with it if hehas to wait another 15 years+ for a tag. I fully expect that within 5 years, the OFAH will force the MNR to make changes such as opening the door to tag transfers and creating a separate pure chance lottery that runs parallel to the point system.
Not illegal - but definitely working around the rules rather than with the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
If you don't like the new system - these are some of the folks you can thank for it.
All good guys. Love the lively discussion. A lot of red tape no matter what system. Do the unregulated hunters also have a point system? Just wondering if they have to go through all these headaches.
Best of luck to everyone. I hope I get another tag before I die LOL.
Cow 15b 2 points
Wmu 49 bull bow season 19 point
I'll have the opportunity to archery hunt 11b on my tag and rifle hunt 63.
Both bull tags
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
So 1 in 18....18pts for a tag. So q tag every 18 years....might as well sell the camp
I think there'll be a lot of hunters with camps where that will happen. Either that,or they'll turn them into Deer-Bear-Upland-Waterfowl camps,exclusively.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadeye
It would be a shame. Next to no deer up there. Lots of grouse. Bears all over and ducks and geese good too but we have that all at home too so doesnt make sense to go 4 hrs north. But it is nice to just go to camp i guess...
This is what we did.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
The guys with the most points applied for bulls (3 of us at 13 points), the rest applied for calves.
We didn't draw a bull, but did draw 4 calf tags. We'll accept two calves, probably shoot only one. WMU49
So how many points for a calf in 49?Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
One of the guys who drew had 10. Im 99% certain that one of the others had 8 or 9. But hes an old guy who doesnt really know what he had, doesnt have a computer to check, and is doing all of this by phone and Service Ontario centres. So, maybe 8, maybe 9, definitely 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Browtine
These people also need to accept reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahuntr300
There simply isnt enough moose in easy to access WMUs for everyone to get a tag. The new system has eliminated official groups, which helps individuals tremendously. Its not the governments fault that an individual hutns alone and doesnt have/want the opportunity to party hunt.
They have a choice - travel to an easier unit for a tag, or find a group.
What do you propose as a better alternative?
Agreed. I don't have an idea what is a better alternative. My wish list is a system where everyone participates/shares the pain in the effort to conserve our moose resource, and one that maximizes hunting opportunities for the present and future generations. Group hunting should definitely be encouraged and rewarded by the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
So the system is still screwed up I applied in 15b with 5 points for a cow tag and got no tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by benner
How do you explain that.
I could be wrong but I am guessing the original commenter received an archery cow tag with 2 points?Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
Not that it's a better alternative,but,there'll very likely be a high number of hunters who will simply forego Moose hunting in favor of hunting other species.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Which is also accepting reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Not everyone who wants a moose tag in Ontario will get one.
There are literally more hunters then moose here. It's a vastly different scenario then Quebec which is often used an example of what to do with our moose program
There is no perfect system. I feel this points system is a much better system. The previous system favored large groups that had the means and ability to have satellite members to augment their capabilities to secure a tag.
Wmu 56. Couple in our group with 12 points. Applied both cow and bull. Nothing. However we have a few guys that got calf tags. Only accepting one I believe. So question, do we have to do anything to turn down the tag or just let it ride past deadline and it automatically goes back into draw?
You don’t have to do anything. Any unclaimed tags roll into the second application period. I’m sure you know already, but have the guy with the least number of points accept the calf tag...Quote:
Originally Posted by addy27
Yes, thank you.
It is a rifle tag, I just checked again
Was a 15b cow your first choice?
It was my second choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by benner
A guy at work says he knows a group of 17 that drew 9 cow tags and 3 bull tags. Crazy.
So that would make sense if that was your second choice as they would go through all first choice applications firstQuote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
its not crazy at all just depends where you applied,Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi
we had 8 guys apply we drew 3 cow tags and a bull,
my 16 year old cousin first time appling drew a cow tag with zero points on his second choice,
Those 17 guys must account for over half of the people who hunt in that WMU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-wanShinobi
Not that I don’t believe you, but stories like this that lack details of what WMU and if it was archery or gun applications make me say hmmmmm.....
It of curiosity which wmu was the second choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt86
Thanks
You explained it later buy saying that was your second choice. Makes complete senseQuote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
Does anybody know what the maximum amount of points someone could have if they never received a tag under the old system?
16c, his first choice was 16c bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by newbiehunter
I believe 27 is max pts with 1extra if you are a northern residentQuote:
Originally Posted by gibb
Thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by lazyman
I didn;t draw a tag , in 47 . Will likely go to camp anyway. There are lots of other seasons open at that time. Deer bow, grouse, bear our area is crawling with wolves. Cut some firewood. Great time of year , have a holiday. Deer gun season , starts shortly after, do some scouting and trail clearing. I have been buying a wolf tag, the last couple of years, hope to fill it. Saw cows the last couple of years, never see calves. Between the wolves and bears and hunting, not a very good survival rate. I guess I am saying , if you really want a hunting trip, adjust your plans a bit. If you have lemons , make lemonade. old243
That's the spirit! Don't let a little thing as no moose tag stop you from enjoying the outdoors! I would also say go and buy a moose license anyway, you never know when you are out there you could hook up with a hunter with a tag that needs some help and party hunt with them. You could also buy a bear tag and hunt bears as well during that time. Also bring your fishing pole, its nice to fish those quiet areas when there is no pressure to get a moose.Quote:
Originally Posted by old243
Good attitude to have. Hunting is more than harvesting an animalQuote:
Originally Posted by old243
I've never hunted moose, but maybe long into the future I will. With that being said, can I build up points by purchasing the license without entering a tag draw? I don't like the idea of taking an opportunity (tag) that I don't plan to use.
Yes. You just need to choose WMU 99Z in the drop downQuote:
Originally Posted by dean.f
Thanks, I just did it.