Pushing for remote work post pandemic......maybe that is a door you do not want to open.

I was having this discussion with a some people (virtually of course) that felt that working from home will be the new norm post COVID. Customer facing roles (outside sales and sales managers) will obviously need to be close to the customer base but other roles (HR, Finance, Inside Sales, Customer Service or Marketing) people feel they can be located anywhere in the province or in the country. That is my main point - if the person doing that job can be located anywhere why would employers say it is OK for workers to leave one region and relocate to another region and not expect a correction in compensation to reflect the lower cost of living, cheaper housing, or no commuting. If these jobs can really be done remotely then why would the company not near source those jobs to a region that has lower wages and enjoy that benefit? I'm just saying be very careful what you ask for.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7090216/c...alary-changes/

Do they pay cops,teachers and hydro workers less money because they work lets say up in timmins or smooth rock falls don't think so

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Originally Posted by 3030

Do they pay cops,teachers and hydro workers less money because they work lets say up in timmins or smooth rock falls don't think so

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If you can do your job from at home, Why can't someone in Mexico do the same job for quarter the price? With zero benefits or pension.

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Now you are starting to understand what the Global Reset is all about.
Everyone makes the same income.
"You will own nothing and be happy"

II. To regulate the global market

Secondly, we need a global system of social security to regulate the global market. We believe in a society based on freedom and this includes a free market economy, where people are free to produce, trade and consume goods and services. However, the freedom of some should not harm others. If the global market is governed only by its own principles of competition, profit and growth, it will be destructive to people and nature. We need an international framework of rules, arrangements and institutions that ensures that the outcomes of global competition serve the interests of all people and that protects nature and environment.

http://www.globalincome.org/English/...0basic%20needs.

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Originally Posted by 410001661

I was having this discussion with a some people (virtually of course) that felt that working from home will be the new norm post COVID. Customer facing roles (outside sales and sales managers) will obviously need to be close to the customer base but other roles (HR, Finance, Inside Sales, Customer Service or Marketing) people feel they can be located anywhere in the province or in the country. That is my main point - if the person doing that job can be located anywhere why would employers say it is OK for workers to leave one region and relocate to another region and not expect a correction in compensation to reflect the lower cost of living, cheaper housing, or no commuting. If these jobs can really be done remotely then why would the company not near source those jobs to a region that has lower wages and enjoy that benefit? I'm just saying be very careful what you ask for.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7090216/c...alary-changes/

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'Lower cost of living, cheaper housing' ? Don't I keep hearing that it is more expensive to be a rural resident. Might be mistaken, but I thought it was this site, that I have heard that repeatedly.

Somebody cry this guy a river lol. He might be having a hard time working at home. He gets distracted to easy lol.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ario-1.6020949

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

'Lower cost of living, cheaper housing' ? Don't I keep hearing that it is more expensive to be a rural resident. Might be mistaken, but I thought it was this site, that I have heard that repeatedly.

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No, I think you are hearing things. Rural properties in general are still cheaper to buy, and have less of a tax burden then suburban properties - especially in more desirable areas. Now some costs may be higher (groceries, Sat TV and Internet) but the price of homes is still way lower than suburban areas. That is a personal decision that people need to make for themselves.

Rural housing has seen a large uptick but so has suburban areas outside of Toronto - Burlington/Oakville for one is a HOT real estate market at the present moment (insane actually). The rural uptick is driven by Toronto people migrating out of the city into suburban and rural areas putting upward pressure on the limited housing stock. The key will be what will happens post pandemic - will the they return to Toronto once the offices open back up and they get tired of the long commute and the change of lifestyle?

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Originally Posted by 3030

Do they pay cops,teachers and hydro workers less money because they work lets say up in timmins or smooth rock falls don't think so

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Cops, teachers, and hydro workers........it really does not matter because none of them can do their job remotely. They all punch a clock and need to me present and accounted for at the beginning of each shift. If they want to move 100kms away from where they work all the power to them.......just enjoy your new commute to work every day.

I am referencing remote workers like customer service representative working in a call center in Mississauga, or a financial analyst working in Toronto. Their whole comp package is based on where you life (associated cost of living and competition to attract and retain top talent). If someone decides to cash out and sell their home in the burbs and move to Minden or Owen Sound and want to remain working remotely why would the employer not also re-negotiate? Why would I pay someone a Golden Horseshoe salary when they are living in Minden or Owen Sound - if a company wanted an employee in Minden or Owen Sound would they not just hire someone from that region and enjoy the lower wages?

Given it’s me that’s pointed some that stuff out repeatedly and he knows damn well who.....

Housing/rent/land taxes. Cheaper. But likely also worth factoring in household incomes. Is 800,000 debt with 200,000 income worse than 400,000 debt with 80,000 income?

Hydro?
Propane vs Nat gas?
Groceries?
Vehicles?
Appliances?
Let’s use an extreme example and ask people that live really far away. Like those that pay $50 for a case of coke in the artic.

Transportion? Maintenance?
5 minute drive to Sobeys vs 15-30? Kids that can walk to hockey vs driving hours? Walk or 10 minute drive to the TTC/Go? Vs long drives ( on open roads)?

What is cheaper, by far are people lifestyles. Fast life, bars, blowing$200 on golf, theatres, Blue Jays, Leafs, entertainment districts, consumerism etc. Discretionary spending.

On topic.
It’s come up a few times.
Still hard to say how it will play out. I’m thinking on the whole not good.

Two houses on our street sold this week. One for $999,999. Nothing great and backs on to swamp. Advertised as waterfront. Lmao...

The other 3 doors up, listed for 650,000, nothing great for the area, needs work. Sold for $800,000

Don’t know as yet if our new neighbors will commute, work from home? Have kids to bring to hockey, do 6 loads of laundry/week, or if they are even baseboard heat.

Do know, if companies as they are likely to do, and either claw back salaries large, rightfully. Or pay someone else a lot less, for the same work.

There’s big trouble. Because 800,000 debt and 130k household...plus other things..and stats are showing that, generally speaking it’s young people ( those that are staring out without tons of equity fleeing ). And, while land taxes are cheaper. Fewer services/amenities but they will also, likely explode, following the increase in property values, and lack of infrastructure.

I don't think we can use blanket statements ... we have to look at each job situation.

To be honest, if the job can be done remotely, and you don't have specialist skills, with or without COVID (and changes in terms of work from home), the job was already in jeopardy. God forbid it is something that AI will take over at some point anyhow.

In our field of engineering, working remotely actually offers a lot to companies ... but we aren't really focusing on getting a cheaper engineer, we are focusing on accessing talented, hard working people who don't want to live in the city (due to traffic, costs, etc). There's a number of great engineers that have had enough with Toronto, and want to be on a larger, more secluded property ... then there's the young engineer that wants to start a family, but living in Toronto is just way too unaffordable, so they are forced to look way east, west or north ... we can now accommodate those people.

If you're great at your job, and bring in way more value than what it costs the company to employ you ... you're likely fine.

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Originally Posted by MarkB

I don't think we can use blanket statements ... we have to look at each job situation.

To be honest, if the job can be done remotely, and you don't have specialist skills, with or without COVID (and changes in terms of work from home), the job was already in jeopardy. God forbid it is something that AI will take over at some point anyhow.

In our field of engineering, working remotely actually offers a lot to companies ... but we aren't really focusing on getting a cheaper engineer, we are focusing on accessing talented, hard working people who don't want to live in the city (due to traffic, costs, etc). There's a number of great engineers that have had enough with Toronto, and want to be on a larger, more secluded property ... then there's the young engineer that wants to start a family, but living in Toronto is just way too unaffordable, so they are forced to look way east, west or north ... we can now accommodate those people.

If you're great at your job, and bring in way more value than what it costs the company to employ you ... you're likely fine.

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In some instances a specialized skill or a particular relationship with a customer or market you will be fine. When I was a specification engineer with GE Industrial we outsourced all of our product design engineering to India and China for most of our engineered and custom projects. There were some hiccup's along the way and some minor mistakes but in the end the cost savings far out weighed the negatives because they kept the process going.

At the end of the project the only guys that were safe were the ones that had the relationship with the customer.

Consider this too.
If you’re a company and your head office is in downtown TO. With TO expenses, tax rates.

Maybe “San Diego” or looks a lot better. Aka Husky.. today, you can leave a satellite in the 416, let hundreds go. Move to “San Diego”, and adjust your labour force as needed/beneficially remotely. Whether that’s a few around the GTA, or cottage country, or Nova Scotia. And in cases, depending on industry/role, cut salaries too. Not leasing 50,000 sq feet for TO prices.

Too early yet, but..