If you want to see how stupid some cops can be - watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8XmHAP4j4 - no wonder people are so fed up with these morons -
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If you want to see how stupid some cops can be - watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8XmHAP4j4 - no wonder people are so fed up with these morons -
Didn’t see any stupid cops in that video..., unless of course they didn’t check for ticks after !!!
The old lady can't speak or understand English - so they tase her - then they put her in handcuffs when she isn't a threat to anyone - she is 87 years old - is this the way you handle such a situation - I don't think so - I don't think it would take much reasoning to determine what type of person your dealing with when you first encounter her -
Wow. Was this in the 'land of the free'? How ironic.
In all honesty, I think there are just too many cops, budgets way too high.
Then they go try raiding stupid things like this.
Unfortunately, we don’t see the initial encounter.... again, assumptions are made from a partial video....Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
We don’t know what the initial call was.....don’t assume anything from a partial video.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
Just get on you tube and bring up some of the videos that are posted about the behavior of cops - you can just imagine what went on before people started filming them or when they didn't have body cameras - you give some people a uniform, a badge and a gun along with some authority and you have a problem - too many so-called good cops stand around and watch a rouge cop mistreat a citizen and do nothing - I think cops should be liable personally for situations they cause when they are sued - well the people have had enough and are calling for extensive reform - the day when they can negate the constitutional rights of citizens is over -
Nope! I ain't buyin' that an 87 year old senior is a threat of any kind unless she was armed with a firearm and aiming it at officers. Quite clearly,the training modules allowing this kind of interaction is seriously flawed and needs to be expunged. The use of CEW's was never intended to be a force of compliance under all circumstances. They were designed to be used as an alternate "last resort" to deadly force under extremely limited circumstances. Police attitudes,especially,in the US,need a complete reset. Hiring and training criteria need an enema.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I gather that she was trespassing on the property of a Boys and Girls club picking weeds - probably dandelion - people make salads with them - no matter what the call was for it couldn't have been that grievous that you have to respond the way they did - you don't treat an old lady like that
When was your last CEW training session ?Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
So, right before the officer with the camera shows up, I hear "Drop the knife!" shouted by the officers multiple times and then the tazer goes off... Rick is right - we don't know the context. Did she try to swing it at the officer? Did she threaten someone on the property? We don't know. Yes, it looks awful, but there are too many questions about this that can't be answered with a body cam video. I am not justifying anything these officers did - just making observations from what I can hear and see from the video. Clearly there is a language barrier, but a weapon was also involved by the sounds of it.
For what it's worth, my 82 year old mom is a wizard with a knife and an expert with a wooden spoon and when she tells me not to touch the cake until it's time for dessert, I listen.
The other side of the story..at least more info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_C4J11eqHY
These guys are idiots. That old woman was a threat to no one.
Yea some training is needed: surely there are better ways for 3 cops to confront an 87 year old women holding a knife she was using as a trowel to pull up dandelions. They're lucky she didn't die from being Tazed....
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
But I know of other incidents ... and even this one ... there's like 4 cops on her ... holy smokes.
My point is ... I honestly think there are too many cops, and they are bored and looking for e to do.
Well they dropped the charges...and her lawyer is going to sue ...A happy ending in "Merica" Haha.
Quote:
Charges against the 87-year-old woman that was tased by a Chatsworth police officer have been dropped.
A letter from District Attorney Bert Poston to Chatsworth Police Chief Josh Etehridge detailed the sequence of events the led to the arrest of Martha Al-Bishara after a stun gun was used to subdue her. She had a knife in her hands according to police.
Family members said the elderly woman was cutting dandelions for a salad on the Boys and Girls Club's property.
In the letter, Poston also explains that Al-Bishara had been told by family members in her native Syrian language to not trespass on the private property.
Post said 'I find nothing inappropriate or unlawful about this use of force,' referring to the stun gun that was deployed on Al-Bishara.
Quote:
When Channel 3 reached out to the Chatsworth police chief in August, he sent a statement saying in part, "the last thing any member of our department wanted to do was use a taser on an elderly female. However, when she began to walk towards the officer, from an elevated position with a knife, the officer used the most reasonable amount of force that he could at the time.”
Channel 3 reached out again on Wednesday, but Chief Josh Etheridge said the department's insurance company has advised him not to comment. However, he said he was made aware of the video being shared on Tuesday night.
Dean plans to file a lawsuit claiming excessive force was used in the arrest. He expects that lawsuit will be filed within the next two months, but he says Al-Bishara has no ill will against the officers. He says she loves the community she has lived in for the past 20 years.
She won !!!
Oh and yes better Training is now required :)Quote:
In the agreement, the city of Chatsworth is required to pay Martha Al-Bishara $150,000.
A settlement has been reached between an 87 year old woman & the city of Chatsworth, Georgia.
This is a copy of the agreement it says the city will pay Martha Al-Bishara $150,000 in full. Plus the city will provide body cameras for all patrol officer on duty.Al-Bishara's attorney, Jeff Dean says his client is glad to be out of the spotlight and hopes her story is a stepping stone for change.
"They are hoping this brings the community closer together and they hope to have a good relationship with the police force going forward," Dean added.
Quote:
"The city will also provide writing confirmation that the police department will reinforce the standard training for its officers on deescalation tactics and crisis intervention for mental health consumers
"We wanted to make it a point of emphasis -- that these were important classes -- that the officers needed and these were things that needed," attorney Jeff Dean says.
Maybe the cops were afraid to get a scratch if they just walked up to her and took the knife a way, she obviously wasn't a threat of any kind. What a bunch of cowards, utterly disgusting.
OPP in-service training 1993 just before I went to the private sector. We were left with absolutely no doubt in use-of-force training that the exact same conditions must be met to use CEW that are required for deadly force because in some circumstances,they can result in sudden death. To this day,I'm told that it hasn't changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Does it appear as though cops are being profiled these days?
Irony
[QUOTE=JoePa;1162002]Just get on you tube and bring up some of the videos that are posted about the behavior of cops - you can just imagine what went on before people started filming them or when they didn't have body cameras - OR........Just get on you tube and bring up some videos that are posted about the behavior of people--you can just imagine what went on before cops started filming them.
Lots for them to do in york region,but they like to just hunker down, hide and hang out a bit lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
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Big time..Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
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They are suppose to be there to "Serve and Protect" not do as they like..... If it too hard for some to do, they should move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
That's what they did they served an old lady with a tazer while she gathered her lunch. They protected the boys and girls club property from a knife wielding citizen lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
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CED (Taser) use is authorized much further down the use of force model. Once a subject begins to actively resist, CEDs are an option, where deadly force is not....Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Getting back to “stupid cops”, that pretty much describes anyone wanting that job in today’s political climate!!!!!!
Some lyrics from a new song this spring talking about the cops lol.
"Central Intelligence Agency is drug traffickin'
Cops with bad tempers, politicians pushin' their agendas"
"mad cops who clap shots
Aimin' to kill and steal a stash box"
It kinda sounds and reminds me of old school stuff but new lol.
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Not disputing that Fatri. But these days, stereotyping cops is kind of like black kids in hoodies being profiled.
That old Lady reminds me of my Grandma.She is gone long time ago.........if that old Lady would be Media smart-she could have won millions over her ordeal.
I mean-87 years old woman!!! scared ,confused-does not speak English;sure she knew her innocence ........ I mean c'mon,where was the common sense there?
And the Chief explains the unexpainable-4 cops and a teaser on an 87 old Lady,collecting dandelions.
Even the Boys in Scarlet are hanging their heads in shame due to what politics have done to a once proud force. They've been stubbing their toes an awful lot lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
My opinion is that the pot is being stirred from way up above.
Remember, there is a Global Agenda at play here.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/...e-really-mean/
Stupid Cops really? You have an 87 year old woman out on her own, who lacks a command of the English language, in a land where English is the common tongue, walking around with a knife in her hand harvesting dandelion, while trespassing on private property. Now that was stupid! After that whatever happen can be chalked up to misunderstanding, not stupidity.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
They can always fall back on ‘ we were just following protocol ‘ she had a knife. Common sense need not apply.
Yeah, this pretty much confirms they are dumb . They KNEW she could not speak English ...Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
It's just high horse bravado ... I took down a little old lady with a knife ... what a bunch of wankers.
She's probably thinking, what did I do wrong ... and why are all these guys here with guns. Who knows
what she was thinking ... maybe she thought they were trying to protect her against something, because
no ways she would think she is the threat for cutting dandelions.
What was the correct course of action? Was she a threat? Nope, if they stopped to assess they would have seen
she was cutting dandelions. Is the property owner demanding she be removed ... go back to owner and check.
If so, wave to her to walk off property ... don't take her down because she is deemed to be some threat for holding a knife.
I'm not sure why the police were alerted in the first place. presumably someone who had an interest in the property she was trespassing on, could have simply asked the woman to leave. If she refuses, then maybe you get the police involved. Perhaps, of course, they may have realized they might have a problem with the language barrier and to boot the woman had a knife in hand, so they simply, cut to the chase, and turn to the police to resolve the situation. The question remains how much of a trespassing problem does an 87 year old woman armed with a weapon, and having an inability to understandably communicate represent?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
She's probably been cutting dandelions out there for the past 15 years. Plenty immigrants in US and Canada that are old and not about to learn English. You know mom's, dad's, grandma's, grandpa's ... the rest of the family. From what I gather, ALL of the North American economy was built by immigrants ... so let's not bash them too hard ... unless you are First Nations ... then go wild ... you have all the right ... really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
My concern was this thread had set to bash the police for doing what they are called upon to do, namely enforce the law. What the old woman was doing appears to have bother somebody enough, that they deemed it fit to call law enforcement. Fortunately they tased her, if they had shot her we might possibly have been looking at something like another George Floyd martyrdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
The court heard all the testimony, facts we probably haven't seen. In they end the Judge ruled the cops were in the wrong and apologised to the lady and rewarded her $150,000. Sometimes 'how' officers enforce the law is put in question and needs to be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
The only person who appears to have supported how the officers handled this situation is the police chief. Have to respect his leadership and that he had their backs. I'm sure they'll handle it 'differently' the next time.
It's not the fact that the police officer may have gotten carried away, in his handling of the situation, what I find problematic is turning an uncooperative common criminal into a martyr. Turning a criminal into a martyr places a seal of approval for criminals exercise whatever means they have at hand to offer a challenge to authority. There was a video not so long ago, you may have posted it, where an officer makes a traffic stop, and the guy is asked to get out his half ton, and in doing so he draws a shotgun from behind the seat of his truck and blows the officer away.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
I don't think she's being buoyed to 'Martyr' status, just looked like an old lady that deserved better treatment, but I do know what you mean. Especially in the Black communities where there is cop interaction due to a crime being committed and it ends up the 'Criminal' is hailed a hero. The Floyd fiasco is a perfect example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
The Cops in response....the area were it took place is now a No-Go zone for police enforcement and crime is running amouk.
I think what is missing nowadays is that middle part. Let me explain the two ends first ... end one ... neighbors solve their dispute, no need for any type of enforcement .... opposite end is cops step in because things are getting hot and heavy, no question that use of firearms is logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
There's that middle piece ... where it goes beyond the neighborly resolution, but not nearly needs the heavy hand of police ... and we've seen this time and time again ... a mentally ill person, this case of picking dandelions ... there's nothing to respond to the middle, except the cops ... and then they go gangbusters like idiots, deploying policy and everything they've been trained to do ... IT'S WAY TOO MUCH.
Either train a unit of the police force to deal with softer issues, or create a new public arm that is better trained and more sensitive.
We saw this coming 30 years ago. Governments were cutting costs, cutting programs etc., downloading to the police. Police were the only public service open 24/7Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB
and available. For the most part, police were not trained or equipped to deal with the mental health issues they were forced to handle. The pendulum has started to swing the other way, with more mental health training, with officers dedicated to these types of issues, in some police services. These mental health, drug addiction issues are getting much worse.
Yup, and I think what has turned this issue into steroids, is public justice via social platforms ... everything criticized, and so everyone (not just cops) now play by the book ... no such thing anymore like taking the kid back to the parents and giving the parents a chance to deal with the kid who made his "first mistake". The cops throw the book at everything, because they don't want to be held liable for anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
So you have a system that is stone cold ... due to public judgement, and there's only two mechanisms ... full on cop assault or nothing at all.
I tell my older son to be very careful ... we could get away with stuff when we were younger. Now, cameras everywhere, cops see you, you're pretty much going to jail if you do anything bad ... no sympathy, no 2nd chances ... then you have a record, and no company wants to touch you for fear of what that does to their corporate reputation ... so you're basically done.
We created a monster ... and it's VERY BAD.